UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Gorings TIME Cover Tie Piece

[quote=wotan]Dear Gaspare, I always appreciate your unbeatable knowledge concerning rings, appropriate jewelry and their manufacturing. But in this special case I have my own observations and see them parted especially due to Houston s comments.
I have read the whole thread here and at the ring section, therefore I do know what you have answered Houston Coates.

Let me specify: Goerings items have been heavily faked (and phantasy Goerig items have been produced) all the time alredy since end of WII. The fakers respective their clients obviously did not avoid any costs how high these might have been.

You are no -dagger guy- but perhaps you do know the prominent and EXTREMELY valuable Goering Reichsmarschall dagger and it?s final story. During the time it was unknown to most what has happened to/with the dagger it suddenly (in all it s worthness!) did surface on collector s market. F.J.Stephens clearly could proof (what has also been my immediate opinion when looking on certain details) that this certain dagger has been totally faked. Some time later TTWittmann gained access to the few poor remaining parts of the ORIGINAL Reichsmarschall dagger, it has been ruined for ever, he did documt it in one of his books, I think the luftwaffe book) and the dagger which did surface has been really a total fake.

Goering s stickpin shown here in detail, thanks to your ongoing generously efforts, imho has SEVERAL points I personally cannot believe it is the same piece that has been worn by Goering on the TIME cover and Houston once obviously has thought in the same direction. The edge which is surrounding the green stones is embellished in a kind which has been used during the second half of the 19th century, perhaps until the early years of 20th century. This style was replaced by art deco and realism so I highly doubt that Goering as a Connaisseur of art and as modern sensualist would appreciate such an "old" style jewelery for himself. This fact also seems to be proofed by other, doubtless Goering artefacts. Even more, the official DJ badge clealy shows a stag carcass head and the one on the questionable stick pin shows a stag head -in life-. The DJ emblem does lack generally overall in certain details. Finally to me the deer antler looks like done by a person without the least zoological knowledge. In Europa, in the alps region there is such a creature called Raurackl or Wolperdinger and this certain stag looks in some points like one of them.
The lack of ANY proofmark, ANY manufacturer s brand, ANY contence mark (which has been regulated by law!) is another strong point.
For me this stickpin looks like done out of an elder, original piece of jewelry where parts have been used (therefore removed marks) to fake the prominent stickpin, unfortunately by a skilled jeweler but an unskilled (concerning history, style, taste and zoology) person, but this all could gain ground at collectors who do only appreciate an admittedly impressive piece of jewelry without trying to understand it and it s background.
This is my honest, personal opinion concerning this stickpin in person.
Regards,[/quote]


I don't like the pin at all.. Has to be Gold smith marked for sure also gold stamped...But of course my opinion does not matter..
Roger Stahl Steel he was importing items same time as Atwood and they worked together.. was a big seller (broker) and creator of fakes.. There is a Known solid silver hilt sword presented to Goering (blade made by Muller) 1938. Most of the ORIGINAL sword given to Goering is lost... Roger Steel brokered one that was a reproduction with synthetic stones rubies.. Also no silver smith marks etc..When I question BIG dealers about this sword they seem to know nothing.. (Problem is their pictured holding the reproduction) Here is the rub the original hilt and blade artwork has turned up Real rubies and correct sliver smith marks.. Now the reproduction with blade made by Muller has gone missing or underground and the people involved know nothing,, Never seen it.. most likely closet collector with big pocket book bought it.. I'm sure they had a iron clad story to go with these items...
Not talking about the Reichsmarschall dagger.. This Roger had created also.. Interesting how many of the original Goering jeweled daggers and swords were sold for the gems or the metals.. Scraped by the vets who brought them home..