UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum SS Officer Candidate Sword

I just want to response here to the reply made by Houston from the other thread (Re: "SS-OFFICER CANDIDATES") since it's already archived:

The Degen worn by the most right SS-Oscha. is indeed an SS-Unteroffizierdegen (SS-NCO Degen, the one with the drag). The photo can be viewed with more convenience due to its graciously large format via JRBM's "Wearing the Edged Weapons...", Vol.III, p. 55. The picture is, as the caption states, the first wartime class of the SS-Jschl. Toelz. I still believe that the so called SS-Bewerberdegen (SS-Officer's Candidate Degen w/ or w/o wire grip) is in my opinion designated specifically for NCO grade, i.e., ranks from SS-Unterfuehrer up to and including Sturmscharfuehrer. Why, you might ask? It's because of the photo on p. 43, again in the same JRBM's series, but in Vol. II. There's no doubt in indentifying that the Degen which has the grip covered by the SS-Oscha.'s right hand is indeed the SS-Bewerberdegen. Why the certainty? It's because if examined closely the NCO Degen has a very close distance in between the upper part of the pommel and the upper part of the D-guard curvature. It's almost as if these parts are merged when seen in the photo. With the Bewerberdegen, however, the opposite is true, i.e., the distance between the upper part of the pommel and the upper part of the D-guard is very prominent, i.e., it's as if there is a huge gap between them, again if examined via photograph. How come can I be so sure that the SS-Osca. in p., 43 is in fact holding the Bewerberdegen not the SS-Ehrendegen (i.e., the one with the SS runic button in the grip)? Easy, the SS-Ehrendegen is awarded only to officer grade ranks whom met the requirements set down by the RFSS. This fact has been confirmed via DAL as the truth if I may so bold to argue.

Another point to further muddle up this business, the term SS-NCO Degen used to describe the chapeless, wireless SS-Degen is in fact a bit of a misnomer in my view. How come? If we believe that the Bewerberdegen is indeed designated for the NCO rank then the chapeless, wireless version cannot be for the enlisted rank as well. The correct Ranggruppe designation for the SS-NCO Degen (i.e., the chapeless, wireless), I believe, is the Mannschaften which in the Waffen-SS is from Grenadier to Rottenfuehrer. If we believe this to be the case then the SS-Bewerberdegen, i.e., the SS Officer's Degen w/o the runic button falls nicely into the version used for NCO (Ranggruppe Unteroffiziere, or U.Offz.) which is from Uscha. to SturmSchaf. in the Waffen-SS.

Another point to mention is the laxness in enforcing the regulations concerning the wearing of the type of sword/Degen by any SS-Mann/U.Offz./Offiziere whom had not been awarded the SS-Ehrendegen. E.g., many, no doubt, have seen photos of SS Mann/U.Offz./Offz. wearing the Heer saber. Now if this is the case then it would be plausible to assume that many SS- Mann, U.Offz. and Offz. personels carried a sword/Degen that was a mismatched to his latest rank. However, there is another important sub-point to examine in this matter. E.g., if an enlisted man was promoted recently to become an NCO or even an officer then it might be safe to assume that he would probably still posses his SS-Mannschaftendegen and which due to various personal reasons, e.g., monetary considerations, limited wartime supplies etc., would still wear it after his promotion despite the incorrect use. After all, other SS men could wear Heer sabel regardless of rank in the SS if they were still not awarded the SS-Ehrendegen. Going back to the photo on p. 43 about the SS-Oscha. holding an SS-Bewerberdegen, if as stipulated in this thread by Houston that the Bewerberdegen is in fact for officer only then why the Oscha. in the photo would be allowed to own an officer's Degen? Isn't it easier to believe the absence of reprimand for an officer who would still wear his enlisted or NCO sidearm then to believe if an enlisted or NCO man carried an officer sidearm? If an SS officer desired to carry the SS-Bewerberdegen (SS Officer's Candidate Degen) as portrayed by the SIPO Ostuf. in this thread, then it woulnd't be so much of a tresspass against the regulation as the Ostuf. would not be "stepping any toes" if you will, in wearing such Degen. On the other hand, if the SIPO man were an enlisted personel, I'm sure such transgression, minor as it may be to the non-pedantic types during that era, would invite unkindly reproof from the higher ranked personels, or even possibly the Reichsheini himself, as the such weapon was not yet "earned" per se. In summary, if we would still want to adhere to the idea that the SS Officer's Candidate Degen is in fact for officer grade rank, it is important to consider this last remark at least until such primary source surfaces to claim the truth.