UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Researching the markings on my two Police bayonets.

Greetings Gents, I have been attempting to do my home work on a difficult subject.
I have two police bayonets.
Municipal marked, P.K.I
Rural marked S.Sch.II

All numbers match on cross guards and scabbards.

Have come up with different info. from different sources.

P.K.I = Polizei Konigsberg?
P.K.I = Polizei Koeslin district, 1932 period mark. (I lean towards this one).
P.K.I = Kiel Police School. (Doubtfull with the period behind the P).

S.Sch.II = Schleswig district. 1922 period mark.(Most probable so far).

Comments and further thoughts most welcome. Will attempt to put up some images but do not know if my scanner and I are getting along at the moment.

Have located this site.
http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/police_unit_marks.html


--dj--Joe

Another possible meaning.
Police School Kiel

Joe,

According to the 1932 Prussian Police marking regulations:

PK = Polizeischule Kiel
S.Sch. = Schutzpolizei Schleswig, District 2

I hope this helps.

Dow and George, my thanks. Do you feel Police school Kiel would be correct with a period between the P and K? Example P.K.I

Is not Schutzpolizei municipal? My S.Sch.II marked example has a definite brown scabbard.

--dj--Joe

Joe,

The 1922 markings show a period placed after each letter, i.e. P.O. = Polizeischule Ostpreussen but there was no listing for a school at Kiel. The 1932 markings show no periods after the letters for schools, i.e. PK = Polizeischule Kiel. The marking could date from prior to 1932 or simply be that the armorer continued to put a period where he had done so since 1922.

Your Schupo bayonet should have a black scabbard as it is a municipal police force. It is entirely possible that the blacking has simply faded from the leather scabbard. I have seen this happen on numerous occasions.

George

Possible. I find no evidence of any original black dye anywhere on the scabbard, not among the threads nor near the fittings. It has a brown frog but I dismiss that as coraborating evidence as it could have been placed on the scabbard at any time.

--dj--Joe

One next to useless image.
--dj--Joe

Second next to useless image.
--dj--Joe
Should I ever have the bayonets and the camera together on a good day I will attempt to do better.

Per "Collecting the Edged Weapons of the Third Reich - Volume 4", chapter 6, page 215. Police markings:

S.Sch. II = S. is schutzpolizei(municipal), Sch. is admin district Schleswig, II is roman numeral for duty location 2. Any other arabic numbers if they were on the piece would be the weapon number.

P.K. = not listed.
PK. = Police school Kiel.

R. Hanson, thanks for your reply. I appreciate all who have replied.

Not trying to be difficult but my example is brown with no indication of ever having been black. Have observed other rural examples (brown scabbards) listed with an "S" prefix.

Is there something we do not know? Could S. something stand for an as yet unknown? Perhaps they were an older stamp that was issued regardless and used?
Did Municipal Police ever in their existence wear brown leather?

Traffic Police wore brown leather.

Is there a 1932 reg. listing for Rural Police?

--dj--Joe

The volume 4 I quoted states that these were regulations found dated 1932 that were for the marking of police weapons.

While I am not a police history expert, I am sure there is lots we don't know. Variations happen. The P.K. appears to be a variation. Perhaps human error. Maybe the brown scabbard S. mark was for a guy in a rural suburb that was controlled by the municipal department? Lots of stuff is not completely and neatly explained.

Thanks again.

--dj--Joe

Hello Gents! This is my first post on this forum, but I am a member of the BCN and various other collecting forums. I just wanted to note that I have come across one other example of a Police bayo with brown scabbard (generally considered to be rural) that had Schutzpolizei (municipal) markings on it. The color on the scabbard certainly seemed original to me. Of course, the majority of police bayos with brown scabbards that I have come across have had a Landjagerei (rural) police marking.

Exactly why this would happen I do not know. I personally find unit markings to be more interesting, so a "rural" police bayo with the more common municipal police markings would be worth less to me. However, "rural," brown police bayos are obviously a good deal more scarce than their "municipal" brothers, and one could argue that finding a municipal marking on a "rural" police bayo is exceedingly rare.

Anyway, enough of that, I just wanted to point out that I have seen this once before.

Nate,

Welcome to the forum.

George

Welcome Nate, good to have you aboard.

Thanks fellas! George, I run into you everywhere! I'm starting to get the feeling that I could learn alot from you! Actually, I already knew that. I certainly hope you don't mind me putting in my two cents on these topics. I know I'm pretty young.

During the period I understand there would have been independent cities? I found a mention of such under Urban districts - Kreisfreie Städte./ Stadtkreise. Example of such - Schweinfurt.
How would they have been handled? Would they have issued their own weapons? If a rural district - Landkreise would they be brown leather?

Any one know?

--dj--Joe

Not a viable question?

--dj--Joe

It's been a few years now.

Anyone have other examples of brown (rural) bayonets with Schutzpolizei (municipal) markings?
Any other thoughts on the subject?

--dj--Joe

Questionable as both pieces are post 1937 shortages i assume, so the leather could be mixed in time, as SchutzPolizei should be normally black, i assume both are shortaged blades, it would be nice to see the marking? So when are really new grips shortened, so the stamps should be corespond with late 30 ies period, which is certainly different as 1922 manual.