#9637
12/15/2009 02:50 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
Chaps, I am after a good close up of the early crossguard on an army dagger by Axt und Hauerfabrik. I am trying to determine if the crossguard is indeed a unique design or a modified SMF or ACS 1st. I think this early pattern crossguard can also be found on a few early Plumachers. I know a couple of lucky members have managed to aqquire one and wondered if you could help!. Thanks
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#9638
12/15/2009 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Wish I had one
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#9639
12/16/2009 01:16 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
Tom, You and me both!. There is an old post still active that involved Denny R and an AXT in his collection that had, what was thought to be an SMF crossguard. However I believe by the end of the discussion it was agreed that there were enough differences for it to be attributed unique. I was hoping for a couple of close ups to write off hand enhancing as a possibility for the variation or if it was possibly a modified base crossguard from an early Alcoso or Holler. I have comparison pictures to post but I need to get the owners permission prior to uploading.
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#9640
12/16/2009 03:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
I know one member here has on with the swaz ground down I believe it heers68?
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#9641
12/16/2009 01:09 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
Here is the crossguard variation in question, to clarify this pattern is found on early AXT's, and Plumachers ( before they switched to Klaas ). The upper picture is from a Klaas marked dagger owned by Paul.H which I believe to be the same variant albeit heavily hand finished. Note the large inner swirl to the quillions, the lack of definition to the wreath leaf border and the claw like lower feather to the left leg consistent on every example I can find.
REASONS WHY THIS NOT A KNOWN MAKER:
SMF - All early SMF crossguards have ribbons on the wreath at 3,6 and 9 oclock, the legs have no obvious feathering and the head of the eagle is higher set and more rounded in appearance.
ALCOSO 1ST - Although the general appearance looks promising the overall dimensions are wrong with the body being more squat, lack of feathering to the lower legs, smaller inner quillion swirls, and a more defined wreath surrounding the swas.
HOLLER 1ST - Undersized feet, wreath definition, smaller quillion swirls, a shorter squat body to the eagle and a larger squared head.
Now I realise there are differences between each and every early enhanced crossguard by each maker but this variant to me has major differences that could not be achieved through hand chiseling alone. It would appear to have only been used for a very short time and in all probability was Axt's in house production in an attempt to win the manufacturing contracts in 1935/6. We know Plumacher switched to the early Klaas crossguard by the number of examples found today so unlikely it was produced by them. The only thing I can not explain is why it would appear on an early unaltered heavily hand enhanced Klaas marked dagger?.
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#9642
12/16/2009 01:11 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
Comparison pictures of early Holler and Alcoso crossguards courtesy of the V.B Collection.
VB.jpg (104.06 KB, 257 downloads)
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#9643
12/16/2009 10:03 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
Comparison pictures of SMF courtesy of Dr Spocks collection.
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#9644
12/17/2009 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
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#9645
12/19/2009 03:24 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,933
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,933 |
i will post some pics later of my 2.
"Drive Fast and Take Chances" Author... Roy Carroll
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#9646
12/19/2009 03:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,933
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,933 |
Veteran acquired dagger mint blade on this one
"Drive Fast and Take Chances" Author... Roy Carroll
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#9647
12/19/2009 03:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,933
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,933 |
"Drive Fast and Take Chances" Author... Roy Carroll
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#9648
12/19/2009 09:25 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
I know I have mentioned this before but this mark was used by the firm of Gebruder Weyersberg, by definition Axt u Hauerfabrik really is a description of what in past times they were famous for manufacturing- Axes and machetes, a quick look in John Walters book will confirm this fact, Gebruder Weyersberg used the mark Solingener Axt u Hauerfabrik. This firm was a spin off of the larger WK&C firm in 1908.
Gary
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#9649
12/19/2009 12:32 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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OP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
Tom, Thanks for the links, I had come across these in my research and Gary's post regarding the Weyersburg history which I found very interesting. It makes sense to me that Gebruder Weyersburg certainly had the footing and the capability to produce an in house variation.
Roy's fantastic Axt shows exactly the same characteristics as the other limited examples. Its worth pointing out also that after days of searching online and every forum you can think of, the total number of daggers by this maker, you could virtually count on one hand!. I had not read Denny.R comments on the other threads regarding this pattern crossguard until after I had posted, but it seems he came to the same conclusion that it is indeed unique. Great dagger Roy and condition to match!
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#9650
12/20/2009 02:27 AM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
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#9651
12/20/2009 04:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,829 Likes: 26
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,829 Likes: 26 |
Roy, That's a winner for sure, great dagger. Thanks for showing it.
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#9652
12/22/2009 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 2
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 2 |
Thanks for remembering me Tom! I really believe that Weyersburg (Axt) used this x-guard first due to the fact that they never used another type and they are all INITIAL production daggers. Very cool x-guards that have a eagle of smaller proportions comparitively. I have allways looked for an Axt Heer to surface with the Horse logo,but I havent seen one yet! Kevin.
It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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#9653
12/22/2009 03:03 AM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Kevin nice to hear from you do you still have yours? The one pictured in your avatar?
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#9654
12/22/2009 10:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 2
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 2 |
Hello Tom! Yes I still have my Axt,one of my favorites. I miss the Henckels Luft.. But I am enjoying some very nice prewar German sporting guns! Kevin.
It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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