#94795
04/22/2008 08:55 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
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#94796
04/22/2008 08:56 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
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#94797
04/22/2008 08:57 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
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#94798
04/22/2008 08:58 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
I hope you guys find this piece to your liking.
Cheers
Gary
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#94799
04/23/2008 03:50 PM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 452 Likes: 1
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 452 Likes: 1 |
Gary
Beautiful!
Thanks for showing.
Roger
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#94800
04/23/2008 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,182
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,182 |
Gary,
Great piece..luv the knot on #1...
What's the explanation on the dark acorns???? Mine has darkened ones too but with slight traces of gilding..is it peculiar to C & J pieces???
..Thanx for the excellent pix also....
Best regards,
Lou Bell
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#94801
04/23/2008 05:25 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
Roger and Lou, I thought you would like seeing these two new pieces.
Lou,
The acorns on my piece have traces of the gilding left, I have seen this anomoly on a few C&J's and suspect that it is perculiar to this maker, the remainder of the fittings are 100% gilt so I presume it was just a problem with the acorns, the rear acorns are of a simpler design, this also is perculiar to C&J.
Cheers
Gary
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#94802
04/30/2008 04:25 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
I have been doing a little research and asking a few considered opinions on this belt and hanger and the consensus is that it is a Heer belt and hanger, does this give any credance to the feelings prominent within our hobby that these type of hirschfängers with the eagle and swastika hilts are actually for Heer Foresters???. This complete set came directly from Germany and I am led to believe that it has in no way been messed with.
Cheers
Gary
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#94803
04/30/2008 05:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4 |
Gary, That's an excellent question ...  W~
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#94804
05/01/2008 01:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Check with Helmut. He is the one who has been listing them as such on his web site. I don't know if he has evidence to back this up but really have not heard anyone else say this.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#94805
05/01/2008 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,182
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,182 |
WHAT IS HELMUT'S WEB PAGE ADDRESS?????...
(LOST IT)...
Lou Bell
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#94806
05/01/2008 05:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94807
05/01/2008 05:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94808
05/01/2008 05:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94809
05/01/2008 05:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94810
05/01/2008 05:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94811
05/01/2008 05:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94812
05/01/2008 05:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94813
05/01/2008 05:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94814
05/01/2008 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94815
05/01/2008 06:19 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
John
A beautiful piece in stunning condition, it's very nice to see another complete piece with great frog and knot. These are very difficult to find in this sort of condition. Is there a makers mark on your piece, I'm not 100% sure but it seems to resemble a Holler pattern.
Thanks for showing
Gary
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#94816
05/01/2008 10:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Gary:
There is no maker mark on it.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#94817
05/03/2008 10:49 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
Whilst studying both of the C&J pieces I have noticed a few variations.
The blades vary in length,
Stag is 259mm
Ivory is 277mm
This surprised me somewhat until I studied the blades, the etches are slightly different, the stag piece is at the top of this picture.
Obverse blade views, notice the tree near the riccasso just above the boar which is being attacked by the dog.
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#94818
05/03/2008 10:51 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
Now the reverse etch, notice again near the riccasso.
Both of the riccasso's are the same length of 44mm.
Stag piece to top again
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#94819
05/03/2008 10:54 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
Now the scabbards, Stag grip scabbard is 282mm whilst the Ivory piece is 296mm,
Stag to top again
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#94820
05/03/2008 10:57 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
Now the most surprising thing was the lower mounts, I had thought that because the Ivory grip piece was longer it would possibly have a longer lower mount but it's not the case, clearly you can see the stag piece has a much longer mount
Stag mount 115mm long
Ivory mount 98mm long
Stag to top again.
Notice also the variances within the hand engraving, it would be nice to compere others.
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#94821
05/03/2008 11:00 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
Notice that the obverse grips whilst they are made of different materials the hilts and guards are almost identical as are the acorn styles.
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#94822
05/03/2008 11:02 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
The reverse hilts are also very similar, the main differences are the acorns.
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#94823
05/03/2008 11:07 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
There are also small differences within the scabbard lugs though they are small and mainly I think through the casting of each piece.
Also the top mounts vary in length
Stag piece 79mm
Ivory piece 72mm
Stag grip on top again
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#94824
05/03/2008 11:13 AM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
I personally think that we can see by this side by side comparison that there are variances to be expected with each piece within all aspects of the manufacture. In many other types of daggers and especially within blade lengths this variation would be considered a detraction, not so I believe within certain hirschfängers and especially these C&J pieces with the Eagle and swastika hilts.
Gary
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#94825
05/03/2008 07:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4 |
Hi Gary, You can't argue with proof like this, I guess it's what you call incontrovertible evidence, eh?  Younger collectors should take note of these slight but true anomalies no matter what field of daggers they collect, it will only help them to make wise decisions on their own. You've done a great job with this thread mate, as well as the rest of you who contributed. My hat's off to all of you. This is exactly what I thought these forums were all about, adding and sharing knowledge. Job well done fellas!  Bill
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#94826
05/05/2008 07:07 PM
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30
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OP
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,781 Likes: 30 |
I hope this thread has a while to run, I'm sure there are a few more examples guys can post.
Cheers
Gary
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