UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Clemen Jung Scabbard Fittings

Houston,

Do you see these fittings on other pieces than C&J?

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Yes-On several other maker's products. Is that the JAH piece that recently sold on Ebay to-???

Yes it was Houston and I was the winning bidder after an onslaught of snipers. The scabbard in question is not the reason I decided to return it for a refund. I understand that Henckels used fittings that were of the same material for the scabbard and the hilt. The scabbard fittings on this piece are of brass and the hilt fittings appear to be tombac. The fit on the dagger to scabbard exhibited about a 1/4 overlap, which led me to believe along with the difference in materials that this wasn't the correct scabbard.

1 You can see the overlap that I was referring to in this picture along with the difference in materials.

Also, along with the sharpening on the heart of the dagger blade the ferrule was split.
Maybe I'm just to picky, but none of this was mentioned in the description. The etch was affected by the sharpening on the dagger as well as the skinner. Wasn't a big deal on the skinner, but the dagger was too much.

Another comparison.

Actually the hilt fittings probably were iron-this would be typical for this era JAH piece. They may have been gilted but that would be unusual. It is also unusual that the scabbard would be a replacement since the skinner seemed to match.
I bid late but you got it.
I was interested in it because I have a very rare piece with the identical etch on both sides--and I wanted to link it to JAH. Do you have photos of the etches and the TM? These etches are the only ones I have seen and they are rare.
Wish I could have looked at that piece in hand.
The split is nothing really-just the seam. Scabbard overlap? What do you mean by that? Just a bit too long? That would mean nothing.

Here's a scan of a page in a henckels catalouge showing Mikes hirschfänger, below it says blackened steel fittings though I would assume that a hirschfänger of this type might be able to be purchased with either Tombach,gilt or perhaps even silvered fittings, these finishes were available on other hirschfängers in this same catalouge, when I saw this on Ebay I had presumed the fittings were steel, Mike were these fittings magnetic or not. It seems a strange type scabbard to have with this hirschfänger, certainly I have not seen this type on a henckels before. I thought the blade etch was an early one, it seemed to me more of a military etch rather than a hunting one but I may be wrong on that point, it's the sort of etch that needs to be seen in hand to get a good opinion. On a personal note I don't think that scabbard was original to the Hirschfänger, the skinner certainly looks to fit well but that just may be luck.I also watched this piece on Ebay but did not bid on it as I had my doubts on the originality of the scabbard. I certainly would like to know more about this etch.
Houston can you post some decent pictures of the etch pattern on your unmarked piece, perhaps we can looks at the fittings and try and work out the maker that way.
As a guess I would think that Mikes piece is circa 1900 give or take a few years either way, certainly not an etch pattern we see on most Henckels that come up for sale, by the way the catalouge I quote from is from 1926.

Cheers

Gary

I did manage to get some pictures of the etch. As I stated before the dagger and skinner matched, but the sharpening on the dagger itself was the kicker.

Blade etch

Blade etch again. You can see partially where the blade is sharpened.

skinner etch

skinner etch again

Gary,

If you would, could you show us the scabbard throat on your deluxe Henckels and how it matches up to the base of the clamshell when it is sheathed. I can't believe that those wouldn't match up a lot better than having over an extra 1/4" around the edge. Your throat seems to be much more oval than this one.

Thanks for the pictures Mike, perhaps looking more closely this is more of a hunting etch rather than military, I like the guy on the horse and the vines, certainly unusual to say the least.

Cheers

Gary

That is the same etch I have-both sides-- on my very gross size combination JAH/Dittmar,Helbron piece. As I said these are the only two I have seen. I could not believe it but I recently bought a stein on Ebay with the same horseman scene. I always thought it was a combination effort by both companies but this confirms it

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This last one shows just how big this piece really is. The hilt is clearly made by Henckels--the etch too as we now know and the blade and scabbard by Dittmar. The scabbard is plain but clearly made for the unusual shape of the blade -like half of a scissors. The scabbard leather is fine Morocco sealskin. I believe this to be a custom made Royalty piece because of the crown which is not usually a part of the Henckels design. Probably the Duke of Wurtenburg. Both Dittmar and Henckels were located in the same general area. Dittmar seems to have received the order ,their TM is on the blade, but since they made plain pieces they had Henckels execute the etch and fit their hilt with the addition of the crown-A Wurtenburg(sp) type

Houston,

It appears from yours & Mike's pieces that Henckels was a fine etcher of blades. Other than a pair of "Feldherrenhalle" bayonets Wayne Techet had, any idea why we never see 3R etched bayonets from JAH?

Beauty!

Stunning Hirschfangers !

No Billy--I don't. It's a shame because their products are top quality.

Houston,

After examining both etches, why does yours look so crisp with great detail between the straight template edges. Even the leaves look so much better than the above etch. Do you see what I'm seeing?

I Love This Stuff
Von Ryan

THAT is a real beauty Houston!
No doubt about it! Von Ryan is right, the etch is pretty dim on the other piece, plus the sharpening encroaching on the etch didn't help matters. You can also tell that scabbard is a match.

True--In many cases the older pieces have etches that are rather thin especially compared to 3rd R. bayonet etches. When they show age wear and abuse they get thinner and even fade out a bit. The large piece I have has a near mint blade. The one Mike had showed quite a bit of age--but a VERY rare etch pattern. It might have been worth saving with a little clean up and a proper scabbard especially since it had the skinner. I would guess that even Ralph does not have one like this.

Houston,
I really had a problem sending it back even with all the problems it had. The skinner was really hard to turn loose of. I'm sure you have already contacted the seller since you were the next to highest you old sniper.

No Mike--I have not--but someone else may have--I can think of about 3 suspects . Don't forget that the improper scabbard is still worth a few bucks. This JAH may be seen again--looking quite a bit better too. I may get a second chance offer?? from the seller?--If I do I would be willing to let one of our guys have it?? I am happy with mine. Just let me know.