UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Medals & Badges of the Third Reich Forum Dotted DKiG

I must admit that when doing motel buys 4 years ago, I ran into a German veteran in the Chicago area who had ordered from Steinhauer & Luck in the early 1950s several Knight's Crosses with original stock ribbons from Germany. Fortunately, the weight of the RKs was about 3 Gms. light and the workmanship, while better than the 1957 issue, was not up to WWII standards. The centers were great, but the frames were not too good.
I had mentioned this on WehrmachtAwards.com.
He also had a German Cross in Gold (pin was not the WWII style and was a banjo style and thin and Oaks and Oaks and swords (not near as good as 1957s, but with original stock ribbons).
So while Steinhauer & Luck DID manufacture just after WWII, the quality of the DKiG was not as good as wartime. It also appeared that some of the leftover stock was being used (the ribbon was identical to WWII issue and the cases for the crosses were original stock).
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

The evidence is 'out there' and has been for 50+ years BUT the stories put forth by crooked dealers about late war, shortages, rush orders, lack of technical/artistic man-power and on and on and on has just fed hungry collectors and lined the dealers' pockets.

Todays fakes are much more refined than those of the 70's BUT do fall short of the post war productions of the 50's!

It's too bad that there's such a denial or non-acceptance that production didn't stop only wore out and by then the 'new' varients were fed to the very hungry collectors!

I'm probably pouring kerosene on a burning fire here but I'm going to do it as unfortunately there's probably a lot more post war assembled stuff out there floating around than anyone cares to admit. The idea that production stopped at wars end is ludicrious on badges,daggers or any other small collectible to me. These people needed income,faced potential starvation and would do anything to secure food for their families.
I've been digging into the dagger assembly that was going on in the late 40s and 50s for at least 3 years and what I've uncovered leads me to believe that a great many daggers were post war assembled out of leftover parts. Furthrmore these daggers were wholesaled to a few large American dealers and entered the collectors market through them.
Those that state otherwise IMO have a vested interest in trying to keep the majority of the collecting community clueless about how widespread these practices were.
Jim

Jim, you are absolutely correct! There's no doubt that this occured and the 'production' is embraced today.

Don't limit this post war production to metal though...it runs the full spectrum of what we collect!

There are just too many unfortunate people who have bought these 'reproductions' and want to believe that they own a war time item that they tend to drown out the folks who know what went on.....

I took of a couple of remarks that were in reference to a fight from another Forum.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
I took of a couple of remarks that were in reference to a fight from another Forum.

Dave

Oh come on Dave. My post was simply welcoming Tom and my reference "to a fight from another forum" was more vague than yours is.

Why did you delete my entire post?

I know that this is one reason I am having a declining interest in this forum. There is to be no mention of any other forum (or that other forums exist), any dealer, etc.

How about lightening up a little?

I'm with Dave on this one..Don't think there should be any hint of another forum or dealer here when discussing a piece..
It is the piece itself that must pass the scrutiny..If a certain piece can be proven bad for example it will be bad no matter what dealer site or forum its on.

I'm with Dave on this one also and Gaspere has it right on, the item is waht we are here to discuss not a particular dealer or forum said whatever. Lets keep things on topic and keep the other stuff out.

Fritziii

Well, here is the edited version:

Am I missing something here or am I just confused? I thought it was well known that Souval produced medals long after the war years as well as S&L. I have seen several fakes produced by Souval. Their post-war manufacturing is of much lower quality.

And to think that there are no veterans who might have forgotten where they obtained an award 20 years ago or even might just want to rip someone off is rather naive.

I have a lot of respect for our veterans. But, they are just like any large group of people: there are going to be good ones and bad ones.

Do you really think that any veteran selling a fake must not be a real veteran? Come on. Veterans are arrested for far worse crimes than this all the time.

Schloss 1, I was hoping you would be back but it's been a bit quiet!

I'd appreciate your thoughts and hate to see a good discussion just fade away...

Hi Dave,
I haven't paid any attention to this subject since you posted your 1953-dated periodical proof that decorations were being made/offered in 1953, during the time of the Korean War, & available to Korean War era Army soldiers while stationed in Germany. By the way, very nice bit of information. But we were talking about decorations made 1945/1946 supposedly made then & available to actual World War 2 veterans in those years,- not things made in 1953, not just the 8-years-after-the-war production most of us have been aware of for years; we were talking about what was brought back by WW2 veterans as being original, not 1953-made baubles brought back by US Army Occupation troops in 1953. I applaud your proof of decorations made / available as far back as 1953. However I wonder of the quality of this stuff, which may have been equal to that (low quality) sold at the same time by the Insignia Collectors Club of Rockaway Park, NY.
By the way, S&L & Rudolf Souval have been thrown into the limelight, but nobody has mentioned the postwar production of the late great Dr. Kurt G. Klietmann, of "Die Ordens Sammlung", Berlin, Wielandstrasse 16, I have here his olde yellowed fragile 1964 Listing of the whole gamut of "Neuanfertigung" decorations, to include both Nazi & Imperial German. His "stuff", from 40 years ago, & also from not very long ago, haunts valued proud collections. For the Rudolf Souval zealots, I have a few of their complete Listings from the early 1970's, showing each & every item available, prices, etc. But alas, I have nothing of 1945-1946 production.

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