#90453
07/19/2007 01:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,834
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,834 |
Thanks Terry. You've answered one of the age-old questions of TR blade collecting. Here is the reverse side with the model designation.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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#90454
07/19/2007 03:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1 |
Houston, The WKC examples are fakes. It surprises me that you weren't sitting on the docks in 1959 to see the creates floating in. WKC never made these examples and I mean never. Other trademarks (from my many years of experience)are good.
I Love This Stuff Von Ryan
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#90455
07/19/2007 04:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Seeing that some long held beliefs have been introduced as fuel for the discussion - I have a question to the Cognoscenti. I think I have a reasonably good handle on government issued blades. My knowledge of dress items is not as solid. I was introduced into dress bayonet collecting with the belief that the short dress bayonets were for NCO’s. Can anyone point me to a period source where that information is confirmed? FP
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#90456
07/19/2007 04:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Interesting that you would have such a strong opinion on that Wayne. What proof do you have of that? I have never seen a properly stamped Third Reich era( 33-45) WKC TM'ed fake of any kind.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#90457
07/19/2007 04:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
FP-There are a couple of period edged weapon catalogs that document this-However I don't believe the rule was enforced. IMO Many continued to wear the long version they had purchased as a an EM after being promoted to NCO, mainly because of the cost involved.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#90458
07/19/2007 06:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Houston, I’m not disputing what you say. In the limited selection of catalogs that I have I did not see any differentiation by rank. Perhaps if someone has a catalog where that information is included they could post it? Regards, FP
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#90459
07/19/2007 08:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Look in Tom Johnson's Volume 8--page 271-A page from a Max Weyersberg catalog confirms this--also for Firewehr.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#90460
07/19/2007 08:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Houston, thanks for the information. But that’s where it gets a little confusing for me. In Vol. II Tom Johnson has a translation of “Solingen made Me”. It says that the military and police (junior grade) NCO’s and EM had a choice of length - subject to local regulations. Can they both be correct? FP
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#90461
07/19/2007 09:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22 |
I had this piece in my old files which seems to show the same grip plates & pommel finish as the others, I can't speak to the authenticity of the grip emblem. Sorry, I had trouble resizing it.
2.bmp (91.85 KB, 113 downloads)
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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#90463
07/19/2007 10:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Billy: If you'll email me the pics. I'll re-size and post them. Jim
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#90464
07/19/2007 11:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22 |
Jim, Thanks, you've got mail
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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#90465
07/19/2007 11:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Billy-The TM there is the approx 1930 type without the WKC underneath. I am talking about the later type which began about in 1933-34. Visor with slits and WKC underneath--top of helmet towards the blade tip--That is the Third Reich type and I have not seen any fakes that I can recall.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#90466
07/19/2007 11:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1 |
Ok guys, now the jokes on ME!!! I did believe that discussion above the WKC fake deal was meant to be a humorous thread, wasn't it? Houston, I was just kidding you about the WKC trademark thing. Ya just gotta have a sense of humor sometimes. Apparently I lost the idea of the thread somewhere earlier.
Wayne
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#90467
07/19/2007 11:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
FP-There may have been conflicting regulations or changes but, at any rate, I don't think much attention was paid to those regulations. The Police had a wide variety of different lengths to choose from for their private purchase pieces.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#90468
07/19/2007 11:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Good "Poker face " Wayne. I had no idea. I ain't playin' with you at the table. Here are some of the different Police blade lengths.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#90469
07/20/2007 12:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22 |
Thanks Houston,
I checked my files & don't have any fakes showing the WKC '33-'34 logo.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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#90470
07/20/2007 12:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Hey Houston: Does the display above constitute an "ALL IN"? If it holds up does this mean Wayne has to walk around the MAX in a barrel this year!! Jim
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#90471
07/20/2007 04:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Houston, My compliments on an outstanding display!! As for the long and short bayonets in conjunction with rank (junior NCO’s/EM), I also took a look at George Wheeler’s book to see what he had to say about the subject. And some more catalogs. George can correct me if I missed something. But my sense of everything taken together is that the end of the day it’s just as you say. Not much attention was paid to bayonet length. A sort of Laissez Faire attitude which makes sense because there were not restrictions as regards grip type, blade decoration, pommel decoration etc. With the determining factor seeming to be the size of the purchaser's wallet. When it comes to senior grade NCO’s - however. Both regulations and some catalogs clearly indicate that the type of sidearm was not to be deviated from. Regards, FP
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#90472
07/20/2007 07:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1 |
First of all I must make this next statement perfectly clear: ANYTHING I have put into this thread concerning WKC was for fun. Do not, I repeat not, take me seriously in THIS thread.
I would only consider a barrel if it was "cleaned" of all patina and pre-45 German manufacture.....
I Love This Stuff Von Ryan
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#90473
07/20/2007 07:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 811 Likes: 1 |
By the way Houston, that is a great collection.
Wayne
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#90474
07/21/2007 12:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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