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#89953 01/20/2007 05:05 AM
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If you are into SA collecting or have been a collector for a while-you know that some of the early references mention that the first SA's were not standardized. They had mottos with different fonts, some even have blue panels with the motto( oh yes!), some had no SA runics in the grip at all and some had the early pointed wing eagle in the grip. Some may have had leather scabbards with nickel fittings and some had copper scabbards. All are scarce and seldom seen. But here's the thing--as I said-- the early references chalk these differences up to an early lack of uniform standards corrected by early 1934. BUT-of late-some are now calling these "Christmas" daggers given for Christmas. I don't think the Nazi's were big on Christmas so--I wonder--where does the idea come from that these were Christmas presents? It would have to only be for one year? Christmas 1933?--and if that is the case-why so many different kinds and variations even to include Rohms ( All ?? ground-I don't know of any that are intact) Is there some proof or are these just early non standard pieces? Is this another inaccurate term? Another "Funeral" dagger?


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I have often admired these early daggers and would like to know more about them as well. Is there any reference or thread that anyone is aware of that discusses them in any detail? I would like to find one at the SOS if possible but I never see one for sale.

Mark Cool

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Those SA's are probably incorrectly described as Christmas daggers. Even so, Nazi Germany celebrated Christmas throughout the Third Reich.

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Interesting topic but to be quite honest with you, I have never heard anything about a Christmas SA dagger.
As you know, I've only been in the hobby for a short 7 years now and I still have much to learn but a X-mas SA, "terra incognita" Confused but would certainly like to know more if there are any reference on the subject.

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Christmas was also used by Goebbels as an important means of spreading propaganda to the German people

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Patrice,
Do a search on Christmas SA and you will get a few hits. If I remember correctly, there was a fairly extensive thread on Christmas SA daggers, but can't find it. Maybe it was before the change-over to the new site and was lost.


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I also remember that thread but could not find it either. As far as Christmas goes-the Nazi's celebrated "the season" but I don't think they called it Christmas.


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If you look on Brian Maederer's site-- militarycollectiblesinc.com you will see a couple of these early daggers. As I said earlier they have always been thought to be from the period early 1933 to 1934 before uniform standards for production were imposed. They may even be samples or prototypes given to SA Officials for consideration. We may never know.
I just don't like the use of improper terms that we can't seem to get rid of once collectors start using them. IMO they are very misleading and cause important things to be undervalued and unappreciated.


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WEIHNACHTEN

Mike


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I did some searching and found the link, I believe you guys are talking about. I don't know how to post it here. It's under SA prototype dagger by Gladiator. -wagner-

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I found the thread and bumped it up. Lots of good info.

Dave

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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
I found the thread and bumped it up. Lots of good info.

Dave


Excuse my French but what does "bumped it up" means ? Confused

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It brings an old thread up to the front of the forum section.


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Houston I am looking ont hat site but dont see the early daggers? Can you please point out which daggers?
Thanks


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Page two in the SA section


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Thanks Houston. I apparently got the threads confused. I was looking to the "SA Prototype" daggers. Guess I shouldnt read the forum till after my AM coffee!


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I just recived one today and it is definitely a ground Rohm with the later nickle silver eagle. No gau mark. I'll post pics today.

Mark Cool

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Here it is..very early Pack ground Rohm.

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Whoopps, I posted the scabbard first...here are the rest.

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another

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next

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Comments?

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Nice early small "A" motto Pack you got there Kingtiger. Those are really hard to find. The Packs are rarer than the Eickhorn's. Congrats! -wagner-

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Milestone did have an unground early SA by Pack years ago. I always pined for it as I really like Pack pieces, but too much money at at the time it was sold. ALSO, it had the tip of the blade broken, otherwise it was a beauty.
My Christmas SA is an Eickhorn and is an NSKK, as are many of these. All the Eickhorn's have the dagger parts numbered (an assembler number as in the case of the Roehms and Himmlers, but all hilt parts are numbered to the blade-not the scabbard).
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria


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That's a beautiful rare SA Mark. IMO nice scabbards like that one are much harder to find than the nice blades. I still don't buy the Christmas stuff though. The real NAZI's did not do Christmas--- they called the Season other things-Pagan they were and Christians they were not.


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I owned this dagger and sold it to Bill Shea about 2-3 years ago at the SOS in Louisville.


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