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#8864 01/15/2010 11:32 PM
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SSman Offline OP
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I am thinking about purchasing this visor and would like some opinions on it?
SSman
1.

AV2.JPG (39.26 KB, 228 downloads)
#8865 01/15/2010 11:33 PM
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2.

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#8866 01/15/2010 11:33 PM
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3.
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AV4.JPG (38.82 KB, 226 downloads)

Rod Hartley
#8867 01/15/2010 11:34 PM
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#8868 01/15/2010 11:35 PM
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5.
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#8869 01/15/2010 11:36 PM
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#8870 01/15/2010 11:36 PM
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Last.
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AV1.JPG (61.99 KB, 221 downloads)
#8871 01/15/2010 11:42 PM
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looks like a stunner,,,

#8872 01/16/2010 12:32 AM
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Thanks for the opinion Robert.
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#8873 01/16/2010 07:44 PM
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Contract cap?

#8874 01/16/2010 09:22 PM
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Doug. What do you mean by "contract cap"?
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#8875 01/16/2010 11:59 PM
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When you see an interior like the one in the cap shown, it's a good indicator of a cap made to a price, in a batch made for the govt., or a particular branch of the military.

The impregnated orange cloth as opposed to a silk or satin liner in a more expensive private purchase officer's cap.

It looks like someone's tested the underside of the visor brim with a pin to check to see if it's vulcan fiber or plastic..

#8876 01/17/2010 01:26 AM
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Thanks for the info Doug.
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#8877 01/19/2010 05:38 AM
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One of my concerns is the sweat diamond. Is it soft or hard? Soft plastic ones are of post war manufacture. Wartime ones were far harder and more brittle.

Officers were given a budget to purchase their uniforms, unlike other ranks who were issued theirs (with certain exceptions, like special purpose uniforms (Panzerwraps, Winter uniforms, etc), and some uniform elements).

Thus, officers uniforms and peaked caps generally had makers and or retailers marks. If made to measure, they often did not have size markings.

This cap seems to be half way marked. Sonderklasse is a cap manufacturing standard. It means Special Class. It defines the quality of fittings used. I am not at home so I can't easily check, but I seem to remember it was further defined by another word in a box, like Privat, Standard, and more.

This cap lacks the second mark. It also lacks maker and/or retailer's details. This is unusual.

Use of the cheaper lining, together with the strange marking would steer me away from this.

Have you checked the inside of the chinstrap slides (covered by braid, and mark where two cords become one)?

The core of these should be metal. Post war manufacture ones sometimes use plastic. This is not infallible, as early post war ones used metal for many years (up to the sixties, I believe, depending on the manufacturer), plus wartime stocks were also used for many years after the war.

If, however they use plastic, that definitely means the chinstrap, at least is post war.

Sorry I can't be as positive as the others. I am not fond of this one.

David!

#8878 01/19/2010 06:05 AM
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Thanks for your opinion Dave. I do not have the hat in hand so I cannot check it out. Only going by these pictures the seller sent me.
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Rod Hartley
#8879 01/19/2010 06:14 AM
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The reason I mentioned the sweatshield is that it looks to be made of a soft material, judging from the two buckled areas on the right side (high right and beside Sonderklasse).

David!

#8880 01/19/2010 09:16 PM
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David. Just got a reply from the owner of the hat. He said the slides are metal and the celluloid sweat shield is stiff!
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#8881 01/20/2010 03:54 AM
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While this cap is not in hand and hard to judge solely by the exterior, caps configured like this were made.Lower end caps were made to a price either on purchase orders from the govt or as an adjunct to a firms more expensive lines.

Officers were indeed given a stipend to obtain uniforms etc; however, not all could afford the more expensive items.

I suppose it remains to be seen what is actually here, with the cap in hand.

#8882 01/20/2010 05:41 AM
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A bit more on Sonderklasse.

This term was used by a number of manufacturers who used the term EREL Sonderklasse, and this was divided into a number of sub-groups, with the lowest being "Standard", then "Extra" and a few more exotic levels.

The terminology defined the materials used. For example, a ventilated cockade was one of the features of the "Extra" and higher levels.

This terminology was generally used in conjunction with the individual manufacturer or retailer's details (at least their name).

Some manufacturers not part of this cartel, used the expression Kleiderklasse (dress class) to mark their better products, so I suppose using Sonderklasse the same way is not impossible.

David!

#8883 01/21/2010 06:54 AM
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Dave, do you know how much an officer would receive for his stipend?

Was the amount based on rank,and how often?

Once a year, or?

#8884 01/23/2010 01:53 AM
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As far as I know, on receiving his commission, a newly minted officer would receive a reasonable stipend, to get his initial uniforms.

Thereafter, it was incorporated into their base pay.

Don't forget, unlike almost every other army in the world at the time, you couldn't 'direct entry' as an officer. All officers were required to spend time as an enlisted man, while their suitability for commissioning was assessed.

No West Point, Sandhurst or Duntroon for the Germans, where you went from civilian to cadet to officer.

Thus, an newly minted officer already had all the field equipment, etc. The stipend was to purchase officer grade uniforms, headgear and insignia.

Wartime annual base pay rates were as follows -
Soldiers with less than 2 years service 360RM
Soldiers with over 2 years service 432RM
Unteroffizier 504RM
Unterfeldwebel/Faehnrich 540RM
Feldwebel/Oberfaehnrich 648RM
Oberfeldwebel 720RM
Leutnant 864RM
Oberleutnant 972RM
Hauptmann 1152RM
Major 1296RM
Oberstleutnant 1440RM
Oberst 1800RM
Generalmajor 2160RM
Generalleutnant 2520RM
General & Generaloberst 2880RM

Plus front line duty was worth an extra RM a day, for all ranks.

Hope this helps. I will have to research the actual stipend amount.

David!

#8885 01/23/2010 05:41 AM
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Took a bit of finding, but I found it.

On commission, a new officer of all services but the Kreigsmarine received 450RM to purchase uniform components (KM received 700RM, because of the additional cost of KM Blue Uniforms).

Every month, all officers, regardless of service or rank, received 30RM for maintenance of their uniforms.

All clothing was provided free to other ranks, and replaced on a one for one basis, if an item was damaged beyond repair.

So my initial impression was only partly right.

David!

#8886 01/23/2010 09:34 PM
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So what is the consensus on this visor? Yes,no maybe so.

#8887 01/24/2010 02:15 AM
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All,

My view is -
If the seller is telling the truth, and the sweatshield is actually hard, this may be an original, but I would definitely want to put my hands on it, if I was purchasing it.

So if the price is right, SSman, it is your choice.

As I already own three artillery visors, I certainly would not be interested, for my own collection. I was lucky. I started collecting this stuff before the fakers got good at their jobs!

So my vote is maybe.

David!

#8888 01/24/2010 03:22 AM
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Here are photo's of the inside lineing.

P1210002_(Small).JPG (45.58 KB, 44 downloads)
#8889 01/24/2010 03:23 AM
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