UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum M1933 opinion needed

Going to buy a SS M 1933 by Gottlieb Hammasfahr with logo. Everything looks good, but:
- cross guard marked p.a. which, among others, goes for Hammasfahr&Cie, not Gottlieb Hammasfahr.
- the scabard is painted, looks that painted in the period.
All fittings are in nickel-silver.
Opinions, please...

disrtict mark II

sokol... can you post some pictures?

didn't have camera on me...

quote:

Originally posted by sokol:
didn't have camera on me...

That's a shame, it would make things easier with photos.

I'm not 100% sure on the crossguard markings but the scabbard should be anodized for this model dagger.

I think PA internally marked crossguards is Ok for Gottlieb Hammesfahr, but most are distribution marked III, not II. The scabbard should be blued but could be period repainted. If there is wear on the paint it would be almost impossible to tell if it is period painted without chemical analysis. If you sanding lines under the paint that is a good sign. Also, look for signs of wear from a vertical hanger.

Thanks for the input.
I know about the scabard, but think it can be a mid-period production 35-37...

2 skyline drive...
Yes, there are sanding dots under the paint.
That's a strange thing, but this is the second M33 I've recently seen by Gottlieb Hammasfahr with logo both in paint, p.a. and CG marked II.

Does it have a hanger?

It doesn't... and no signs of wear from a hanger.

some pics...

2

3

4

5

Looks fine from here. Nice handle, how is the fit to the crossguards? Scabbard looks fine. Blade appears to have heavy water/moisture damage. cheers, Ryan

Handle fits well. So, why the scabard is painted, but not blued?
Regards...

A few years back, Tom Wittman had an early Asso SS that had a painted scabbard as opposed to an annodized version. This example had an excellent crossgaurd to scabbard throat fit and was represented as 100% original. I remember no traces of bluing were present were the paint was scratched or missing when I inspected it. I would assume that scabbard finish depended on the manufacturer and the time frame the dagger was produced in.

While it is true that almost all early produced M-33 SS daggers had an anondized finish to their scabbards there was at least one manufacturer who painted their scabbards. There is also the possibilty that if original to the dagger the scabbard was repainted during the period as the original process(similiar to gun blueing) did not hold up well over time.The scabbard could have been replaced post war with an original painted example. The scabbard paint finish pictured here appears old judging by the photos so it is up to a hands on inspection and some conjecture to form an opinion.In any case the scabbard to crossguard fit should be flawless, without gaps if original to the dagger. cheers, Ryan

please have a look of a dagger by the same maker...
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136571

Sweet example, to say the least. It appears the scabbard is of the annodized variety on that one, possibly indicating a slightly earlier manufacture date. I'll agree that the crossgaurds look like the P&A style as well. Numbered pieces are interesting as well, but unless they can be attributed, don't really add any value to the piece. Not to get too far off the subject, I'm always a little leary when something comes out of the woodwork with a number (especially one that can be traced to an officer.) I want to believe it's genuine, but in the back of my mind ????
Good Hunting !

Thanks all!