UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum What is it? Grey land customs?

Hi guys,
I recently acquired some WWII german daggers. One of them lacked the cross-guard, and looks a very much like the Land Customs Dolch, except the scabbard and the grip's leather is light gray.
Haven't seen or heard of anything like it anywhere before.
Any ideas?
Manuel

Pictures would help. Can't think of any gray leather items offhand. Faded blue? Lacking a x-guard a pommel shot would be good.

Hi Barry,
The current x-guard is a replacement I placed, probably a replica. I'll be looking for a the correct one soon.
This type of dagger doesn't seem to have been very sought after, someone removed its xguard in the past, probably to fix a more popular dagger model...
The basic design looks similar to Land and Sea Customs. Air Customs?
Thanks for the assist.
Best
M

Looks like faded green = land customs. Pommel could be proper. X guard is more like an army eagle but with upturned wings, not the luftwaffe you added. I am far from knowledgable on these so hopefully someone who is will comment on your piece and maybe post a pic. You can also search archives for a pic. Yes, go to find, type in Land Customs and you will see a beauty. The RZM mark on your blade is not a positive feature.

Hi Barry,
I found it disassembled. There was another blade in that lot that has "$olingen 1939" inscribed. Perhaps I placed the wrong blade..?
What's the negative with an the RZM blade?
Once Again THX
M
PS: The dagger you advised me to look at, is a beauty indeed. But the way I see it, mine has white metal furnitures, and the color could not have lightened so much. Even the Sea Customs is way too dark for it to lighten so much as mine...
BTW, was there a German "Air" Customs?

Just some thoughts based on what I see, not an expert on these pieces at all. Blade is a poor reproduction. Crossguard is a denazified Luftwaffe 2md model, pommel looks like that from a Heer dagger. Ferrule looks to be a reproduction as the detail to the oakleaves is poor. As far as the grip & scabbard leather do, don't know what to make of them but I'm skeptical based on the above mentioned items.

One question, can you show us a picture of the reverse of the scabbard? Do the obverse lines on the scabbard fittings go all the way around?

I can't add much more than Billy except that 1939 Solingen blade is also a post war blade found on 2nd Luft repros.
I do however like the catagory of "Air Customs". Now that one has be be very rare. Probably one will eventually turn up on one of the east European Auction sites.

Regards,
-serge-

Don't have a pic right now, but those lines do _not_ extend to the rear of the holding ring-bands, just the front.

This is a pic of the other blade on the lot

quote:

Originally posted by Billy G.:
One question, can you show us a picture of the reverse of the scabbard? Do the obverse lines on the scabbard fittings go all the way around?

another

Hi Sergei,

Who knows? They probably also had an Unterzee Customs, and since the discovery of their Flying Saucer Programs, a Space Customs...



Best Regards

Manuel

quote:

Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
I can't add much more than Billy except that 1939 Solingen blade is also a post war blade found on 2nd Luft repros.
I do however like the catagory of "Air Customs". Now that one has be be very rare. Probably one will eventually turn up on one of the east European Auction sites.

Regards,
-serge-

Hi,

What you have there is a faded out old Repro of a Sea Customs dagger. I can make out some slight remnants of the gold wash. The fittings should be Aluminum, but these look like pot metal or "grey" Metal. The "tell" that marks it as a repro is the position of the screw hole (and a couple of other things). The Blade that you have on it now is the one that it came with. The "Solingen 1939" blade is one of the ones they used on "Field Day" daggers at the VERY end of the war and sold to GI's. Most likely, it goes with the Luft. crossguard you have on the dagger now.

Cheers, RG88

There's absolutely no gold wash anywhere, just plain dirt, rust, oxidized oil, and some sort of nickel plating. The gray color is consistent all along, no gradations whatsoever. Besides, there's simply no way it could have lightened so much.

It well might be that they used the cross guard and blade on another dagger, and left behind the scabbard, ring, pommel and grips.

I have never seen a copy of a LC or SC, specially this old and beaten up.

So, the Solingen 39' is a fake blade? Or were they old original factory blades used to make new daggers for the GI market?

If it's so, I'll simply destroy both blades when I go back home today. That way they won't make it back to the market.

Best

M

Manuel, to me it all looks wrong sorry the broken bit of second model luft might be original but thats it IMO.

I have to agree that it is an old repro. Im afraid that it is one of those pieces that no matter how much you hope its right ita all wrong.

Old fake dagger. The leather seems to have almost no grain-typical of these repros. Also--the "Solingen 1939" blade is typical of fake Luftwaffe daggers with the cheap leather scabbards sold in magazines for $5.95 in the 50's-60's.
These blades were never used in the "Field Day 1945" pieces which were ordered by the Allies and made up of left over original parts and given as prizes or gifts. They have special etched blades and are quite scarce. Copies of the 1945 original orders for these pieces still exist today and can be found in Tom Johnson's books.

Thanks Guys,
I had doubts about these two, but I had to buy them in order to get the others in the bunch, a Red Cross, a LW 1st Model, a LW 2nd model, and a Rural Police. Also, I had never seen a Customs fake, since there wasn't a market for them that I knew of. I'm still a lil'doubtful that those parts are fakes, on the same principle...

Best

M

Actually, I think the x-guard is the worst of all. It sits off-center on close view...

Best
M

BTW: Nice avatar!

quote:

Originally posted by mongobongo:
Manuel, to me it all looks wrong sorry the broken bit of second model luft might be original but thats it IMO.

I have to agree that it is an old repro. Im afraid that it is one of those pieces that no matter how much you hope its right ita all wrong.

Manuel - Just for the heck of it. See if you can back out one of the screws on any of the fittings, and slide the fitting off to see what color the protected leather really is.

If you dump the dagger, I would at least save the grip and screws.

Dan

Even though the blades are repros they are one of the earlyist repros and should have some small value.

Hi Guys,

Did just that. I was just able to move them, but not remove them completely. Guess what.? If any, the leather underneath is even lighter...

BTW, handling those little screws and retigthening them was a headache. TG I had a small set of precission electronics screwdrivers...

Best

Man

quote:

Originally posted by DASH:
Manuel - Just for the heck of it. See if you can back out one of the screws on any of the fittings, and slide the fitting off to see what color the protected leather really is.

If you dump the dagger, I would at least save the grip and screws.

Dan