#85764
12/01/2008 11:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#85765
12/01/2008 11:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#85766
12/01/2008 11:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Detail of the blade etch:
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#85767
12/01/2008 11:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Detail of the front part of the etch:
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#85768
12/02/2008 03:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
Beautiful pieces Guys. But Hermann that is a first for me also. I guess we won't see that one in the "For Sale" section anytime soon? Regards, -serge-
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#85769
12/02/2008 03:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 499
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 499 |
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#85770
12/02/2008 06:18 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
That is a great HJ honour knife/bayonet, John! Super condition! Thanks a lot for posting it here! You have the other version of the "HJ flag" pommel and "Blut und Ehre!" blade, compared to mine. It is great (but also surprising ) to see that several GDC members have these rare specimens in their collection! Best greetings, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85771
12/20/2008 01:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
Here is my SS Honor HJ Wusthoff Type:
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#85772
12/20/2008 01:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
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#85773
12/20/2008 01:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
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#85774
12/20/2008 10:24 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
That is a magnificent piece, Ron!
Thanks a lot for posting it here.
It is a variation compared to mine.
Best greetings,
Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85775
12/21/2008 08:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Great pieces. I have never seen or even heard of the type with the SS runics.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#85776
12/21/2008 10:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
I have tried to put together a picture reference on these early Wusthoff pieces: HJ with HJ Motto HJ with SS Motto HJ Flag with HJ Motto SS with SS Motto Some with stag grips, others with checkered wood grips. Any other types??? Also, some have different Wusthoff TMs. Some with a ricasso some without. Some with TM and some without. SO, would you all either contact me and send me photos for my HJ files for the next HJ book or let me know what model you have so that we can catalog it and I will let you know if I need photos for print quality. Thanks, Ron Weinand Weinand Militaria
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#85777
12/27/2008 04:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
No further pictures of these rare HJ Honors? Ron Weinand
Also, for those who have my first NPEA Daggers book, there is my other HJ Honor with HJ diamond hilt and SS motto with stag grips pictured in color with a variant scabbard and bayonet frog like hanger.
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#85778
12/30/2008 09:05 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
Hello Ron,
The knife pictured in your NPEA book is also a great example of this very early knife/honor bayonet.
What makes you conclude that they were all made by Carl W�sthof? The unmarked pieces show several differences like the etchings, but also on other characteristics like the thickness of the ricasso. I agree that Carl W�sthof is the only makermark that has been observed and that these knifes/bayonets also show many (very typical) similarities.
Best greetings,
Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85779
12/30/2008 10:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
I have seen NO other manufacturer on this knife design. What you do see are examples of WWI era by this maker that mimic these knives and, also, the added fact that some are fully marked with his logo and the name Gladiator-his TM, some are only marked with Gladiator and others have no markings, but the same hilt. I have observed the SS motto and the HJ motto, some knives with the 4 different pommel patterns, some with stag grips, some with a ricasso and others without. The plating on all forms is thin and tends to leave with any use. Even my mint models have thin plating on the hilt area that can leave the steel pommel open to spotting. All the mint ones that I have observed had the insignias filled with various paints and shades. I find that the HJ Flag design is probably the most common, followed by the HJ Diamond and rarely the SS runes. These are the only designs I am familiar with, so if anyone has a further model, I would be interested. I also have a theory on their intent, but will hold that until I see further examples. Ron Weinand Weinand Militaria
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#85780
12/30/2008 10:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
Ron --you don't mention the type with pommel swastika. I think these are usually with the SS motto but maybe HJ also. I think the SS version with swaz and black grips is pictured in one of the books or perhaps in one of the old Wittmann offerings. I have had several of the HJ types and one SS. The SS was in fine shape but the others showed typical kid use and abuse of the blades. I know some think these are early HJ-HJ/SS leader knives but the typical blade abuse IMO does not support this.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#85781
12/30/2008 10:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
Houston, while I tend to agree for the most part, I have SEVERAL early period photographs from an NSDAP leadership school showing staff leaders wearing this pattern. I can't make out the pommel engraving, but you can tell from the grip shape and the long crossguard and scabbard snap that these are definately what is being worn. Ron Weinand
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#85782
01/01/2009 03:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
Here is another HJ Honor that Tom and I got in the latest collection. Condition is not too great, but it is real.
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#85783
01/01/2009 03:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
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#85784
01/01/2009 03:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
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#85785
01/04/2009 09:14 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
Thanks for showing this extra knife, a very nice one, Ron!
Coming back to the differences that can be observed: - pic 1: there were at least 3 different scabbards used - pic 2: the etchings can be very different as well: lettertypes and size of the etch.
It is quite possible that these are all Carl W�sthoff made pieces, but then there were many versions and so than I suppose they were produced during a longer period ( a couple of years?) before the standard HJ appeared.
Any thoughts on that?
Best greetings,
Herman
A1.jpg (96.04 KB, 444 downloads) 1
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85786
01/04/2009 09:15 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
2
A2.jpg (88.14 KB, 438 downloads) 2
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85787
01/07/2009 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
Here's what I've got. The HJ was picked up by a US vet along side a road in Germany, not the greatest condition but original.
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#85788
01/07/2009 01:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
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#85789
01/07/2009 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
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#85790
01/07/2009 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
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#85791
01/07/2009 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
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#85792
01/07/2009 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
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#85793
01/07/2009 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
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#85794
01/08/2009 08:59 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
Fine pieces, you got there Mazz, thank you for showing them here!
Personaly I would brush out the dust from that fine wooden grip plate of your "Gladiator" with plain blade. Does that one has an early fighting knife like blade?
Best greetings
Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85795
01/09/2009 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,078 |
Yes, the Ed Wusthof/Gladiator knife has the fighting knife style blade. The hilts of both of my knives are identical, the blades and scabbards are different however.
MAZZ
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#85796
01/15/2009 07:01 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
Very interesting, Mazz!
Here are a couple extra shots of my unmarked and unetched example with classic scabbard and blade.
Best greetings,
Herman
B1.jpg (94.23 KB, 344 downloads) 1
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85797
01/15/2009 07:03 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
2
B2.jpg (94.86 KB, 342 downloads) 2
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85798
01/17/2009 01:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537 |
I HAD ONE OF THESE COME IN ON A MOTEL BUY BACK IN THE EARLY 80'S. A WOMAN AND HER DAUGHTER BROUGHT THE PIECES IN. THEY HAD A K-98 BAYONET, AN EARLY SA AND A VERSION OF THE HJ KNIFE WITH FLAG POMMEL, SS MOTTO AND STAG GRIPS. THEY WANTED $500 EACH. THE HJ PIECE AT THE TIME WAS WORTH $1000. UNFORTUNATELY, THE SA AT THE TIME WAS $100 RETAIL AND THE K-98 AROUND $35. I OFFERED TO BUY THE HJ PIECE BUT IT WAS ALL OR NOTHING. THE WOMEN LEFT AND TOOK THE PIECES HOME. BY TODAY'S PRICES, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD BUY. HOWEVER, AT THE TIME, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BAD BUY.
"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry Gold Badge #263
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#85799
11/01/2009 06:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,054
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,054 |
On another forum, there is an opinion that the SS marked versions are fantasy pieces: http://www.hj-research.com/for...ndex3.html#post12986Are there any period photos of these in wear to share? Here's my HJ marked example. John
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#85800
11/01/2009 08:27 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,666 Likes: 52 |
Super HJ honor bayonet, John! Real "vintagetimenow" quality. Thank you for showing it! About the opinion on the other forum, which tries to specialize in HJ stuff... no comment! Best greetings, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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#85801
11/03/2009 07:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
Well John, that's why we have a forum dedicated to edged weapons where the informed boys are.
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#85802
11/03/2009 11:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,024 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,024 Likes: 1 |
John that is the best one I've ever seen! Wow what a screamer!!!
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#85803
11/03/2009 02:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,133 Likes: 24
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,133 Likes: 24 |
John,
Beautiful example of a rare piece. The one I had sported a snap button like yours.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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