UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum HJ Knife with Etched Blade Carl Wusthof Gladiator

Pommel etch:

Blade etch:

Detail of the blade etch:

Detail of the front part of the etch:

John

Beautiful pieces Guys.
But Hermann that is a first for me also.
I guess we won't see that one in the "For Sale" section anytime soon?

Regards,
-serge-

In the same vein and perhaps of some value to this topic.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/427101702/...940050663#7940050663

That is a great HJ honour knife/bayonet, John! Super condition! Thanks a lot for posting it here!

You have the other version of the "HJ flag" pommel and "Blut und Ehre!" blade, compared to mine.

It is great (but also surprising ) to see that several GDC members have these rare specimens in their collection!

Best greetings,

Herman

Here is my SS Honor HJ Wusthoff Type:

Motto:

Hilt: needs cleaning.

That is a magnificent piece, Ron!

Thanks a lot for posting it here.

It is a variation compared to mine.

Best greetings,

Herman

Great pieces. I have never seen or even heard of the type with the SS runics.

I have tried to put together a picture reference on these early Wusthoff pieces:
HJ with HJ Motto
HJ with SS Motto
HJ Flag with HJ Motto
SS with SS Motto
Some with stag grips, others with checkered wood grips. Any other types???
Also, some have different Wusthoff TMs.
Some with a ricasso some without.
Some with TM and some without.
SO, would you all either contact me and send me photos for my HJ files for the next HJ book or let me know what model you have so that we can catalog it and I will let you know if I need photos for print quality.
Thanks,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

No further pictures of these rare HJ Honors?
Ron Weinand

Also, for those who have my first NPEA Daggers book, there is my other HJ Honor with HJ diamond hilt and SS motto with stag grips pictured in color with a variant scabbard and bayonet frog like hanger.

Hello Ron,

The knife pictured in your NPEA book is also a great example of this very early knife/honor bayonet.

What makes you conclude that they were all made by Carl Wüsthof?
The unmarked pieces show several differences like the etchings, but also on other characteristics like the thickness of the ricasso.
I agree that Carl Wûsthof is the only makermark that has been observed and that these knifes/bayonets also show many (very typical) similarities.

Best greetings,

Herman

I have seen NO other manufacturer on this knife design.
What you do see are examples of WWI era by this maker that mimic these knives and, also, the added fact that some are fully marked with his logo and the name Gladiator-his TM, some are only marked with Gladiator and others have no markings, but the same hilt.
I have observed the SS motto and the HJ motto, some knives with the 4 different pommel patterns, some with stag grips, some with a ricasso and others without.
The plating on all forms is thin and tends to leave with any use. Even my mint models have thin plating on the hilt area that can leave the steel pommel open to spotting.
All the mint ones that I have observed had the insignias filled with various paints and shades.
I find that the HJ Flag design is probably the most common, followed by the HJ Diamond and rarely the SS runes.
These are the only designs I am familiar with, so if anyone has a further model, I would be interested.
I also have a theory on their intent, but will hold that until I see further examples.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Ron --you don't mention the type with pommel swastika. I think these are usually with the SS motto but maybe HJ also. I think the SS version with swaz and black grips is pictured in one of the books or perhaps in one of the old Wittmann offerings. I have had several of the HJ types and one SS. The SS was in fine shape but the others showed typical kid use and abuse of the blades. I know some think these are early HJ-HJ/SS leader knives but the typical blade abuse IMO does not support this.

Houston, while I tend to agree for the most part, I have SEVERAL early period photographs from an NSDAP leadership school showing staff leaders wearing this pattern. I can't make out the pommel engraving, but you can tell from the grip shape and the long crossguard and scabbard snap that these are definately what is being worn.
Ron Weinand

Here is another HJ Honor that Tom and I got in the latest collection. Condition is not too great, but it is real.

Blade:

Hilt

Thanks for showing this extra knife, a very nice one, Ron!

Coming back to the differences that can be observed:
- pic 1: there were at least 3 different scabbards used
- pic 2: the etchings can be very different as well: lettertypes and size of the etch.

It is quite possible that these are all Carl Wüsthoff made pieces, but then there were many versions and so than I suppose they were produced during a longer period ( a couple of years?) before the standard HJ appeared.

Any thoughts on that?

Best greetings,

Herman

2

Here's what I've got. The HJ was picked up by a US vet along side a road in Germany, not the greatest condition but original.

2

3

4

5

6

7

Fine pieces, you got there Mazz, thank you for showing them here!

Personaly I would brush out the dust from that fine wooden grip plate of your "Gladiator" with plain blade. Does that one has an early fighting knife like blade?

Best greetings

Herman

Yes, the Ed Wusthof/Gladiator knife has the fighting knife style blade. The hilts of both of my knives are identical, the blades and scabbards are different however.

MAZZ

Very interesting, Mazz!

Here are a couple extra shots of my unmarked and unetched example with classic scabbard and blade.

Best greetings,

Herman

2

I HAD ONE OF THESE COME IN ON A MOTEL BUY BACK IN THE EARLY 80'S. A WOMAN AND HER DAUGHTER BROUGHT THE PIECES IN. THEY HAD A K-98 BAYONET, AN EARLY SA AND A VERSION OF THE HJ KNIFE WITH FLAG POMMEL, SS MOTTO AND STAG GRIPS. THEY WANTED $500 EACH. THE HJ PIECE AT THE TIME WAS WORTH $1000. UNFORTUNATELY, THE SA AT THE TIME WAS $100 RETAIL AND THE K-98 AROUND $35. I OFFERED TO BUY THE HJ PIECE BUT IT WAS ALL OR NOTHING. THE WOMEN LEFT AND TOOK THE PIECES HOME. BY TODAY'S PRICES, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD BUY. HOWEVER, AT THE TIME, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BAD BUY.

On another forum, there is an opinion that the SS marked versions are fantasy pieces:

http://www.hj-research.com/for...ndex3.html#post12986

Are there any period photos of these in wear to share? Here's my HJ marked example.

John

Super HJ honor bayonet, John!

Real "vintagetimenow" quality. Thank you for showing it!

About the opinion on the other forum, which tries to specialize in HJ stuff... no comment!

Best greetings,

Herman

Well John, that's why we have a forum dedicated to edged weapons where the informed boys are.

John that is the best one I've ever seen!
Wow what a screamer!!!

John,

Beautiful example of a rare piece. The one I had sported a snap button like yours.