UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum HJ Knife with Etched Blade Carl Wusthof Gladiator

HJ Knife with Etched Panel Blade Carl Wusthof Gladiator...A collector just brought this to me and I haven't seen one like this...Ed edhicks82@aol.com

1

11

1111

11111

a

q

That looks like a beauty although my knowledge is limited, Houstons department methinks .

f

t

r

I also don't know to much about them but that is a deep and nice etch

It is called the Hitler youth honor knife. Nobody really knows what purpose they served.An early knife that is rare and valuable. Yours looks like it is in excellent condition.

I stand to be corrected but I think the name given to these is incorrect. I believe they were unofficial HJ knives which were made before the standardised knife was introduced. They are also seen with the Blut und Ehre motto and also a plain blade, and there are a couple of different pommel designs.

If they were Honour knives, for which Honour were they bestowed?

Your example looks very nice indeed!

Regards
Russ

YEAH! and if there Hitler youth knifes how come they have SS mottos ?

My question exactly...obviously real, but given to whom? SS candidate perhaps? Any recorded example known? Ed

Ed,

I like your beard

Whether name is correct or not, they are real. My guess is $2000 - $3000 as to value.

I have seen two others the same. Whether to officer candidates or particularly dedicated HJ is up for discussion. As the Third Reich matured HJ was associated closer and closer to the SS. Witness the 12th SS Panzer Division.

Dave

I believe the time frame these pieces come from predates the HJ's affiliation with the SS. Wittmann has a small section on these blades in his SS book & I don't remember him having any concrete idea on what their purpose was or what the connection with the SS motto was. What I always found odd was that SS daggers use an eszett (ß) in the word "heißt" where these knives use a double s to form "heisst".

I've observed 3 blades on these knives, this type with SS motto, an HJ motto & a plain blade. I've also seen 3 distinct pommel etches, an HJ emblem like this one, an HJ banner & a swaz in a circle. The majority I've seen have hard rubber grip plates although stag was apparently an option. This one was also Wüsthof marked on the obverse & Glatiator on the reverse.

Outstanding original HJ dagger, i found the first one much better that the second one, even the ingraving tecnic is superb comparing to teh second one!
In my belive this daggers are even much more rare than HJ liders daggers, so you shud be very glad to have it in your dagger collection, i know i woud!

Nice one Billy G!

Regards
Russ

Ed,

What you have is indeed a very early HJ knife, also called "Honor Bayonet". Yours has the even rarer SS motto, these knifes are extremely rare and therefore difficult to rate (even Johnson does not put a value in his list but just the quote "extremely rare" for these knifes, if the statement of Johnson about these is correct, than they must be rarer than SS full Röhms and SS Himmlers, which are quoted in his "value list").
This type of HJ-knife is almost never offered for sale.
Yours is also in top condition! Congratulations!

A simililar one has been sold a few months ago by a famous dealer for over 5000 US$.

So far I have observed 5 different pommel motifs and 3 different blade etchings on these. As stated by Rusky there also exist a version of this knife with no etchings at all.

Best greetings,

Herman

Some of these also have checkered wooden grips.

Houston,
I have seen them only with wooden checkered grips or with stag like the one Billy showed.

Billy,

You also have a magnificent piece there, thanks for showing it here and congratulations with it! Is the pommel etch the same as the one Ed showed? It looks like a variation of the "diamond" pommel etch version.

Here is an example without pommel etch: the grip is checkered wood.

Best greetings,

Herman

Thanks for all the input and additional details, always best to ask those who know...Nice to know it's real and I will have to continue research. Ed

These were used by the Austian SS.That is to say with the SS motto

Would like to hear more about your "Austrian SS" theory, Christopher. Is it documented?

Here is an example with a "flag" pommel etch (I have seen 2 variations so far) and the "Blut und Ehre!" motto on the blade (also 2 variations observed).

Best greetings,

Herman

2

Yes it is documented. This link might be of interest.

http://stirnpanzer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=133&t=805&p=6419#p6419

Just register to see the picture.

Very interesting photo, Christopher, thanks for the linck.

I cannot see if it is one of these very early HJ knifes (honor bayonet), I think it is a regular HJ.

Best greetings,

Herman

Hi Herman,

Thanks for the kind words. As far as I can tell, my piece is identical to Ed's pictured piece with the exception of the grip plate material. Mine doen't show any evidence of ever having had paint on the pommel.

Here is another one with the "Meine Ehre Heisst True" motto.

The pommel is even more interesting: SS runes!

I only know of the existence of 1 other early HJ knife (honor bayonet) with this pommel motif.

Best greetings,

Herman

2

Herrmann very nice indeed this is a first for me to see thanks for showing your SS honour bayo......Cheers Scott.

Herman,

Thanks for posting, a first time seeing one with the SS runes on the pommel for me as well. Beautiful piece.

Scott, Billy,

Thanks for your compliments.
Indeed one could wonder if this is a HJ related knife or a pure SS piece...

Best greetings,

Herman

Herrmann this is one hell of a copyright! hahaha

Unfortunately, it is necessary to keep us, collectors, out off troubel, Phatt. Some time ago, a guy posted my pictures on E-Bay, pretending to sell an item that he did not own... An innocent collector-buyer lost an important amount of money with the scam. Since then I use this watermark on all pictures of uncommon items.

Best greetings

Herman

Fascinating! First time I have seen such rare pieces. Thank you for the insight, they really are superb!

Fantastic pieces and in great condition.

Here's mine, no maker mark and in collectible condition.

Obverse:

Reverse: