UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum Railroad Eagles

Kris, I.m assuming all 4 lugs are drilled, I don't know, but even if it was only one , there would be no problem, that lug could have been in a unaccessible place for a scredriver/spanner, it might have been the only way to hold it on the side of the train car, there are many reasons for the hole other than post war.You can't assume it's post war just because you cannot understand why it was there in the first place.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by Baz69:
Kris, I.m assuming all 4 lugs are drilled, I don't know, but even if it was only one , there would be no problem, that lug could have been in a unaccessible place for a scredriver/spanner, it might have been the only way to hold it on the side of the train car, there are many reasons for the hole other than post war.You can't assume it's post war just because you cannot understand why it was there in the first place.

Gary

I am just applying logic, as there are 3 or 4 bolts. If only one is drilled, the others would hinder a flush mount, or leave the bird pinned by one lug.

Sorry Kris,I read it wrong,I interpret that you were saying JR EAGLE was post-war.You was saying the hanging application was post war.

Tommy

Here's the same set up on mine. Only one lug drilled

2

3

Kris, this is the back of your eagle. I think that you may want to throw a blanket over that hog !

Kris, I'm not saying that the other 3 lugs are not fixed, I'm saying that one lug at the top was probably in a difficult place to get to for fixing and it was fixed with a pin, the other 3 lugs could have been fixed in the normal way, with bolts or nuts, just as JR has shown in his pictures. I see there's another one pictured now, is that post war drilled as well.

Gary

you'd have to machine that cone first to get rid of the taper then put a die on it,,not cost effective! As mentioned it probably went thru something then washer and pin to affix.....

So 2 different attachment shapes, cone, that could be tapped OR drilled for pin,,, and a stud that could be threaded.

JR, you've studied these things and have written a monograph on them.You are the 'go to' eagle guy...How were they originally made? Have you had the material tested on the better of the fakes?,are they just aluminum? , thanks, G.

quote:

Originally posted by JR:
Kris, this is the back of your eagle. I think that you may want to throw a blanket over that hog !

John,

LOL!!!!!!!! It was not a hog when you wanted it or put it in your book .

Reds,

These are found both way's, and is mere speculation as to whether it was mounted by one lug. Could it be done? sure it could. Could a veteran drilled it to hang, sure he could of.

Tommy,

That bird is right as rain, and the mounting issue is conjecture in this one case.

Best,

Kris

Not to stir up any crap, but the wehog that I posted pictures of is as good or better quality than any that I have seen on this post, and has 3 mounting lugs in approximately the same places.

We're all anxiously awaiting those photos, Sir. Can you send them or post them ? You may very well have the first legit one and the stud configuration on the back will indicate this.

I know that there is a legit Wehog RR Eagle out there. I know that it probably is going to be the 28 inch version. You perhaps have it. . The obverse of you eagle is not what one would expect as far as the texture goes, but I have seen weathered eagles that have lost the normally seen smooth finsh.

If the lugs are turned down, cut off, broken off, sawn off, this is a good indication. If the lugs on yours are a cast over nub, this is an indicator that it was cast from an original mold that had the same.

And guess what ? We can put yours in the reference as an official maker.

quote:

Originally posted by Robert H.:
Are this then just Railway eagles or where thes same eagles also used for buildings? Would be nice to see some period pictures from the Railway. And which "Loks" got them in which time frame.

I was just reading Kershaw's "Hubris" last night and in it there's a photo of a Mercedes-Benz's showroom with two similar designed eagles mounted on the wall. Their sizes appear somewhat larger, if my guess-timate is correct, compared to the the Railroad ones shown in this thread. Besides the difference in size, I also noticed the shape of the chest of each eagle is more covexely shaped than the Railroad types with each of the eagle's head shown facing to the right of the viewer as opposed to the left. I'll be happy to post a scan of the photo as soon as my scanner gets to warm up and works correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by Baz69:
Kris, I'm not saying that the other 3 lugs are not fixed, I'm saying that one lug at the top was probably in a difficult place to get to for fixing and it was fixed with a pin, the other 3 lugs could have been fixed in the normal way, with bolts or nuts, just as JR has shown in his pictures. I see there's another one pictured now, is that post war drilled as well.

Gary

Gary,

Not to beat a dead horse, but I was watching the race and missed your post. There is a 3 Lug and a 4 Lug that show this cone design, the 3 lug has no lug on the rear of the breast, one on each wing and one on the swaztica. But you never see a 3 lug with 2 drilled holes in the wing mounts, which would be necessary to level the bird. And on the 4 lug access to the center lug is obviously there and access to the wings is even easier. Obviously JR's bird was vet aquired because he mailed it to himself.

If you look at picture S2 you can clearly see that as Gaspare stated, they were machined from a cone or wider piece of aluminum from the original mold for whatever is was to be mounted to. The picture above that, shows an untapped and center threaded assembly for a screw mount.

I personally have never seen a combination of a cone and any other type of bolt configuration on an individual bird.

In my opinion, there is no way in hell, that these were mounted in that manner except for maybe a wall, the most durable configuration is the steel bolt recessed and set into the bird, this setup would be applied in my opinion to an item that required a heavy duty mount. Namely a train. And until someone walks in to these forums with a picture of cones sticking out of the rearside of a boxcar, my opinion is not going to change, because a book says thats the way it was. The majority are not drilled, the minority has one single hole in the breast. Its logic.

Best,

Kris

quote:

Originally posted by Ju88:
Not to stir up any crap, but the wehog that I posted pictures of is as good or better quality than any that I have seen on this post, and has 3 mounting lugs in approximately the same places.

Ju88,

The bird looks ok mounted to the door, but unless its the camera, the upper wings deviate in the cast, they dont conform. The finish in that picture looks good, however the second pic does not, and since there are screws in the wings, and it appears flush with the door, there is little chance for that bird, if there is any chance you need to flip it over. And to be frank, pictures are decieving and when you see these bird's that have been posted as originals, you would immediately notice they are superior when in hand.

Best,

Kris

Here's the photo I mentioned in my previous post above from "Hitler: 1899-1936 Hubris" (2001 ed.) by Ian Kershaw, illustration plate # 54:

They have to be 6-7 feet wide I would think.

Great picture!! Thank you!.

Kris

If I'm understanding this ..you gents are saying that the cone shaped extensions on the back of the Eagles were never intended to be "turned down" (cutting of the excess alum and making an even/perfect stud) and then threading that Alum stud for a nut ? You're saying that the threaded stud is actually a Steel Bolt that has been somehow glued to the back of the Eagle ? Does anyone have a close up shot showing a steel threaded stud glued into position on the back of an Eagle? I've never seen one like this ...I only remember them being solid Aluminum and those "cone shaped" parts being turned down and threaded for a steel nut.
I only own 2 Eagles ...I'll post them.
My first is an HE ,27",4 threaded Alum studs with the Steel nuts.

#2

#3

#4

MM

Fantastic picture!

The picture of the bird mounted was from the person I bought it from, just to clear the air that I wouldn't do that in that fashion.
The top of the wing on the left side (looking at it) right above the screw hole is a little bit flawed, a very little bit but highly accentuated in the photo.
Both of those 2 holes are tapped, and the lug on the reverse of the swaztika is not drilled.
The lugs stick out nearly 1/4" from the back, and are not ground, but are as cast.
This bird sits very evenly on all 3, and does not teeter at all when placed on them.
The pics of the obverse are on my office computer, hence the delay in posting them, but I will later tonight or tomorrow.

Bear in mind that I am not fighting for mine to be authentic just so someone will agree with me for a 'feel good', but more so I can understand why such workmanship would be put into such a little produced fake.

It is always possible the faker destroyed his equipment either accidently or otherwise befor its full potential was realized, but otherwise, it just doesn't make sense.
Being in the industrial metal trades, I understand the work involved.

Notice how those large eagles are facing to the right....

BTW, Mike, nice eagle.

Thanks JU88 ..here's my other one. It's a "PS Wagen 600" 23-3/4" with small Alum studs drilled through for a cotter pin?

back#1

Back#2

Back #3

Mike,

Have not seen that second bird with a rear like that. Its got a WEHOG style interior chest area!. .

Send it out to me

Kris

quote:

There is a 3 Lug and a 4 Lug that show this cone design, the 3 lug has no lug on the rear of the breast, one on each wing and one on the swaztica. But you never see a 3 lug with 2 drilled holes in the wing mounts, which would be necessary to level the bird.

And KL, please give us your explaination on the one that Mike Peters just posted, with the 3 lugs that are drilled in the wing mounts.

JR,

Simple, their not cones!!

Why dont you answer Gaspares question that he has asked you twice? Or are you too busy taking information from the topic to explain it?

How many books will you sell off this thread?

K

Here's a chest close up ...no markings

You humor me. How many eagles have you owned, any how ? I did email Gaspare on his inquiry.

Why e-mail? You have nothing to add to the thread?

And dont worry about how many I have owned, its not relevent.

K

Mike, You have some nice birds there ! Tommy

Mike,

Yeah they are nice one's, very nice, I wish I would have seen the back of that little one while I was there, I would not have left without that one.

Best,

Kris

Thanks guys , glad you like them. No where near "mint" like some of the ones you've all posted ...You're right Kris ,we should have taken them down to check them out. Funny how these birds have been overlooked all these years and now ..look at all the attention.
I wonder how many of them were brought home