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If anybody has what they think is a legit WEHOG rail eagle, put it on here as we would all love to see it.

Here's what I have

The head:

...and the makers marks. Scroll up a little ways to T E's and you will see there is a difference in the markings, but only one letter.
This is pretty detailed for a repro.

Mounts?

Sorry I see your trying to post them.

If you need to shrink these, e-mail them [email protected]

K

The Swazticker

No real mounts. Just the lugs I see in most of the rest. The top 2 lugs in the wings are drilled and tapped.

I tried to send them large for detail, but this is slow on the dial up I'm stuck with here in the middle of the woods...

Cant tell anything from the front really, its ok, its the lugs on the rear that need to be seen. But otherwise looks like another Wehog. Im starting to wonder if there was even a Wehog manufacturer.

K

...and the back with the makers marks again. It seems the first one is too large and I had to shrink it. If they both post, sorry for the double...

Ju88.

Your wehog looks to have the same characteristic as a original eagle.

But there is a wehog out there ,that has
very poor workmanship.J.R.reference shows photos of it.I believe it to be a reproduction.

Maybe J.R. will post some photos of the reproduction eagle on here.

Tommy

JU88, your Wehog eagle is a post war reproduction. The stud portion of your eagle isn't necessary to determine this fact.

As far as a proper finish to the obverse, this is the best Wehog "reproduction" that has come along. But the rest of the features didn't hold up to what you would expect of an original.

In retrospec of all that I have seen, this could have been a legit Wehog that has been post war altered.

One thing to be taken into consideration regarding all of the eagles out there to be reproductions is if that were the case, where are the real ones?
I mean, if GIs brought home flags, daggers, rifles, helmets, etc..., there has to be someone out there who brought home these duffle bag sized really cool interesting, and durable souviners. Esp when the available supply of flags and more desirable items ran out.
Picture yourself on the spot, of course not realizing the full potential of certian items, but as a GI with an interest in collecting. Esp if you were in occupied Germany a few months into the occupation when these items were being dismantled. There had to be literally stacks of then, and not only in Germany, but everywhere a train was abandoned or destroyed.
I'm not necessarily claining mine to be authentic, but it would stand to reason that there should be enough in this country as to run into one every now and again.
One more point before I shut up, is that, just as in the case of daggers, different makers, the rising, then declining need for these items, as well as compounded hardships on the manufacturing plants during the course, many discrepencies would show up over the period of manufacture.

Tommy E has the real ones stashed in his sock drawer !


Removed last name at the individual's request.

Seems to me that if someone talks about a repo long and hard enough, that it will eventually be accepted as fact and will have been intergrated into the pile of "good" stuff that is easily determined to be real. I've seen the same thing w/daggers. We see an obvious, to me anyway, repo and chat about it to the point that it gains supporters and is accepted by much of the collecting community due to different reasons. 1st reason may be that owners don't want to believe their stuff is not good. 2nd may be that dealer/s want to sell these items as real and realize a nice profit and a "market for repos", in the future.

Before very long, the items have a following and are bought and sold as the real deal when in reality they are post-war. They have become intergrated into the community of good stuff just as some post-war items made in the early 60's have done already.

THEN we see prolonged arguments years later as to the authenticity of such items and we end losing perspective and eventually as the "nay sayers" die off, are unable to tell the good from the bad.

Quite a mess as it turns out.....

I harbor serious doubts on some dagger maker marks that I feel were started with the same misguided approach and made to flourish by a lack of knowledge on the part of the owners and a somewhat selfish attitude from some dealers (to make easy money).

My opinion anyway.......

HERE we have the opportunity to keep that from happening as we either listen and learn from JR's experience and expertise OR we believe anything and accept some dubious goods into our community.

Denny

Guys, I have no eagle here,the ones I get in are sold to either J.R. or Denny.J.R is just pulling your leg,so please no e-mails about eagles.

Thanks, Tommy

I have a question for JR. I noticed a preiod picture of a RR eagle on Johann's site and the swaz's appear to cut out or the surface around them darkened. Have you ever come across any like this?

I don't see much proof here. Several educated opinions-Yes. But no one has said WHY these can not be rejects. IMO A poor quality reject is almost as unwanted as a poor or even a good fake-maybe more so. So-why are we afraid to say this COULD be the case. Will everyone then want one of these poor quality eagles? I think not. Are we afraid to admit we could be wrong? IMO there is still the question of the high cost to reproduce these??? OR-PROVE IT !-How do we KNOW they are fake??? Is the reject concept absurd? WHY?

quote:

Originally posted by Houston Coates:
I don't see much proof here. Several educated opinions-Yes. But no one has said WHY these can not be rejects. IMO A poor quality reject is almost as unwanted as a poor or even a good fake-maybe more so. So-why are we afraid to say this COULD be the case. Will everyone then want one of these poor quality eagles? I think not. Are we afraid to admit we could be wrong? IMO there is still the question of the high cost to reproduce these??? OR-PROVE IT !-How do we KNOW they are fake??? Is the reject concept absurd? WHY?

Houston,

If Wehogs are rejects, then every single one is a reject, they vary in every way shape and form.
There is no consistancy at all, so I always look at the back and for some sign. Did the company or maker set out to make rejects? They must have, because they are all screwed up in one way or another. You can have one that looks like melted Pepsi cans and popped out of a mold, and another that looks pretty good but is cast poorly in another manner. So if you want proof your going to need a proper mounting setup.

But since those cones were not usually tapped on the legit bird's, someone will eventually figure it out.

K

Is it the case that some people who have contributed to this thread believe that the Wehog eagles we see were rejects and that the manufacturers allowed their employees to take them home.? I just want to know if thats what some posters here think, because if that is the case for some or all of these Wehog eagles are in existance today I'm sure none of these guys have ever worked in the manufacturing industry. The chances that any item would have been allowed to be removed from the premises and not re-melted and used again is in my opinion very slim and certainly not in the many instances it would have to have been, any large manufactuerer would have some kind of quality control, this guy is not some kind of menial labourer, he would be in charge of making sure nothing slipped through the quality net, he would not be allowing sub standard articles to be removed from the factory. I'm sure that most guys who have worked in the manufacturing industry would concur, some small items are definately removed from the factory by unscrupulous employees but not given away as freebies. No way in the amount we see them.

My opinion, feel free to tell me I'm talking out my ass, and yes I have first hand experience of the manufacturing industry.

Gary

Oh yes. EVERYBODY continue to call a/o eMail Tommy as he is being modest. He has quite a stash of the Rail eagles......

T E just talked w/me and told me he wants to hear from anybody that is after rail eagles......

Especially the "WEHOG" version. He's overstocked........

Denny

Houston,

There is a bunch of info that is just not out there on these birds, one of the biggies is those cone shaped extensions to the rear of the LOK birds mainly. Those birds were not finished or mounted. And the cones serve several purposes, not only do they aid in easing the casting process, but they serve as a mounting system and were used in several different ways.

The first was they could be tapped down and bolted, but even with that, it would create a stress point, and aluminum is not all that strong so although it was done, its not the the way most were configured for heavy mounting.

The way they were mounted, and I mentioned this to JR a month ago and he did not seem to be aware, as he questioned it. The cones were cut to down to just above the surface of the bird, then they cored out a hole and cemented or affixed steel bolts and set them into the rear of the bird. This would have been for a heavier application. Take a look at the pictures of my bird that I posted, and you can see the adhesive or material between the bolts and the rim of the original aluminum mount. These are the Rail Eagles. This has been noted on just about every large bird that I have seen that is found with the larger bolt setup.

The bolt's were also tapped and then tapped through the center of the bolt, why this is I dont know, as if you tapped the lug, why center tap the lug for a screw as well? you cant use both at the same time on a single surface. So these in some case's were cut down and used with a screw mount, it was dual purpose. And to back that intent, a lot of the lugs that were done in this manner were not tapped all the way to the base, why?, the steel bolts were. But they could cut the bolt at the base of the thread and utilize a screw mount and the bird would sit close to it's perch. Did they tap them as a guide for a cut?.

So yes, you can tell a WEHOG without seeing the mounts as it is poor, but in order to answer your question?. If so much thought went into the mounting then why do the WEHOGS all have these cast over and poorly applied mounts, or no mounts at all?. Thats not a factory reject, its a fake.

K

I don't know what KL is talking about, but the stud / cone configuration on the back of an eagle determined what the application that it was going to be used for. Certainly many eagles didn't go on train engines, nor coach car and were used on barracks, train stations, government building etc.

S2

S3

JR,

Obviously you did not read my post, or you would know what I was talking about as you just posted the pictures to confirm it. And pic #3 was not mounted, it was never finished.

K

This is a steel bolt!

Its in your book.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760095573/m/2890021704/p/2

Obviously you are not looking at the photo or you would see the hole where the steel pin was driven through the center cone.

quote:

Originally posted by JR:
Obviously you are not looking at the photo or you would see the hole where the steel pin was driven through the center cone.

No! I dont think so

See this arrow ? ??? This is where there is a hole through the cone. Get the picture ?

Most likely post war to hang from a wall, no other reason for that placement for mounting, where are the other bolts on that bird? are they all center drilled?.

K

Well throw the pics up, if they are its a one in a million screwed up mount, as usually only one if any are center drilled in that fashion.

K

You jest Kris, I'm sure, Post war no way, four holes are drilled through the side of the train car or whatever it was hung from to take the lugs, the ends of the lugs with the holes are then inside the train car, a pin, probably split is then put through the hole which then holds the eagle in place, hence I should think that no damage was done to the lugs when it was removed.

Gary

Well if you can not explain it's a repop.

Kris,The cone shape stud in J.R.photo,cannot be threaded with a die.This was used in a different application.

You can not thread a cone shape object.

They drilled them, they plastered them, they pin them,and they safety wired them. What don't you understand ?

quote:

Originally posted by Baz69:
You jest Kris, I'm sure, Post war no way, four holes are drilled through the side of the train car or whatever it was hung from to take the lugs, the ends of the lugs with the holes are then inside the train car, a pin, probably split is then put through the hole which then holds the eagle in place, hence I should think that no damage was done to the lugs when it was removed.

Gary

Gary, All 4 lugs would need to be drilled, thats all im saying.

quote:

Originally posted by JR:
They drilled them, they plastered them, they pin them,and they safety wired them. What don't you understand ?

I dont understand where the pics of the other lugs are. What dont you understand?

quote:

Originally posted by T E:
Well if you can not explain it's a repop.

Kris,The cone shape stud in J.R.photo,cannot be threaded with a die.This was used in a different application.

You can not thread a cone shape object.

Tommy,

Did not say it was a repop, said the vet may have wanted to hang it.