UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum HJ/DJ Olympic

I bought a collection of daggers and amongst the lot, there is a Hitler Youth style dagger, it is the size of the DJ knife. It has the Student type enamel swastika in the wood grips and on the blade it has the German 1936 Olympics Eagle over the Olympic rings and the words "XI OLYMPIADE SPEILE DER DEUTSCHEN JUGEND 1936" with what I believe to be the Berlin Crest towards the point of the blade. The blade is shaped like a youth knife and the other side is marked with the EF Horster makers mark and logo combined and the ges gesch.
I would appreciate any help any of you can give me on this matter, it looks to be real, but with HJ knives I just never know and I do not see it in any of my textbooks.
Thanks
JN
I am sorry about my first entry, I will figure out how this work and get it right someday soon

I have only seen this knife once before, and I have heard that it is not an original piece. I do not KNOW that this is true, but I think this knife needs to be inspected by a true authority and (if I were you) a paid certificate of authenticity obtained (if it is original) as these etched examples are HIGHLY suspect.
All the best, and good luck!
Johnny

Any chance of some more pics, showing the whole knife, maker mark etc? When you've posted a pic, just click the 'Reply' button at the bottom right to add the next one, and so on.

Regards
Russell

I sent the pictures to the foremost authority that I know, and he liked it and offered to buy it. It came with a near mint early EP&S Motto Hj dagger and Tom liked it too, so they are both rare and I was pleasantly suprised by the value placed both of them, He has a EP&S just like the one I have, but it is rougher. The HJ EP&S had the bayonet type pommel and rivits. He also said he would be glad to certify it (The Olympic Student DJ size). So I appreciate the efforts to help me on this one. You guys are very helpful. There are books written several years ago, that call all DJ size daggers repro's and fantasy pieces. But pictures and sources have now proven that to be wrong, it came with a rough DJ size scabbard. The reason I mentioned the HJ EP&S is they both were in a collection I aquirred.
Thanks
JN

another picture

another picture of the DJ Student size Dagger

I beleive this is the makers mark

Correction, I questioned the suthenticity of this piece or I would not of been asking for opinions and advice. I guess no pictures or documentation have been found to truly authenticate the use of these. I guess my question is did we go to bed one night and they were not right and wake up the next and they were. Or is it a case of, if you have one it is right and if you do not it is wrong. I really do not care one way or the other, I am asking for other opinions on the subject of DJ knifes.
How can these pieces be authenticated ?

If you do a search here on GD, you should find quite a bit of opinions and various information on both the DJ and Olympic style youth knives. If I recollect, both have been the subject of contorversy. I really cannot provide any opinion as my youth knife knowledge is limited as is my credibility on the subject matter. I'm sure someon who knows the story can elaborate.

I had one some time ago, authenticated by Tom Wittmann and sold to Lakesidetrader. So I guess my little Olympic DJ was legit.
Should have kept it but got a good deal from Paul as always.

This small HJ style commemorative hiking knife is significantly different from the much more questionable aluminum hilted versions.

It seems to be showing signs of corrosion on the presumed malleable iron crossguard. And possibly the pommel (are they magnetic?) - which is more consistent with period manufacture. And the rivets seem to be pitted steel which has been cleaned. Or is that just an optical illusion? Also, are the grips actually wood - or Bakelite which has been well used/aged?

Is it possible to do a few simple tests? And possibly take some additional really closeup images of the details (and scabbard) to help make a better assessment of the knife? FP

First let me say I don't know if this is original--and IMO no one does. There is no period reference to any DJ/BDM knife and no period pictures that I know of.
But--looking at the IMO rather crude logo and style of the blade etch puts me in mind of the 60's repro hunting knives stamped E. Voos and others that were sold by Atwood & his buddies is the 60's. You can see those in Fred Stephens' book "Reproduction-Recognition".
As far as the heavy hilt/small hilt goes I believe they were extensively made in West Germany for their version of the Cub Scouts with the scout emblem in the grip in a triangle exactly the size of the HJ emblem.
In addition, while we are on the subject I would say that I also have NEVER seen a student emblem for a knife that has the proper prongs. Now you see quite a few of the HJ ones-so?? It makes me think that those emblems may well be in fact cap emblems.
I would be pleased if someone could show me a proper emblem--but I bet its not gonna happen.