UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Helmet Forum Off Set ckl SS Decals

I noticed on prorege's thread he posted another ckl SS helmet that has the decal placed off set. I think this has been discussed before but do you think it is a coincidence or something else. I would also like to see other's ckl off set decals. Are they just SS or are other branches decals off set on ckl helmets?

Here is my ckl SS helmet with the off set SS decal. It is off set exactly the same as prorege's helmet.

It has been discussed before and there seems to be some similarity of the angle of the decals and the batch numbers. What is your helmet stamped? Mine is CKL64 & 3032

Stamp

I believe mine is a 6970.

It seems the majority of M42 ET/ckl will have a tilted decal. In my experiance its actually difficult to locate one with one applied straight.
Its one of those unsolved helmet problems I'd love to know the answer to.

I would like to know too. Here is my ckl,batch#3012


Glenn

Though not applied at an angle perhaps the batch #2954 is indicative of when the shield began to be appear askew.

Cody

An interesting topic. I believe there are just too many examples in existence to think that the decals were put on askew in error. There had to have been a conscious effort to do this by certain ET company decal applicators. Perhaps they thought the runes looked better in a more upright stance or it may have been the style of the time where many soldiers (and even civilian men) wore their caps at a rakish angle to appear more "jaunty". I don't believe we will ever know the true reason why but it's fun to speculate.

Cheers,

My long time theory on this has been that the decals were skewed to the rear to make the runes appear more vertical. Has anyone seen a runes decal skewed forward? I haven't.

My tilted one. I've neverseen a repro or a fake with a tilted decal... yet!

Shu

I would agree with Darryl and Bernie's comments which makes perfect sense. Just to many from this manufacturer with the decals placed in this manner.I would think that if it was human error then some would be tilted in the opposite direction.

Hi Shu,

Can I ask the batch # in yours??


Glenn

Here is a comparison of the decals shown in this thread. They all seem to be placed the same way, leaving me to beleive it could not have been done by accident.

Glenn, mine is #2975.

Shu

Here's one applied straight, batch# 2871

We have 2954 applied on vertical with 2975 applied askew. At this point in the thread it would not be unreasonable to assume the application anomaly began somewhere between batch #'s 2954 and 2975. It would be equally interesting to determine when the anomaly ceased.

Cody

Hi all,
Here is a pic of my tilted ckl 66 with batch number 2882.
Charles

Is that what Bob was recently selling?

Based on the posted examples it would be reasonable to assume more than one person was tasked with applying SS decals at the ET facility.

Cody

But I wonder if it was only one individual who applied the decals in this manner.


Glenn

Its obvious to me that shellshock is responsible and the only explanation, it wobbled loose a few vital organs and to him they where perfectly straight.

Years ago I had seen a copy of Nazi helmet decal application specifications, (centered on vent hole, top edge of decal so many mm from bottom edge of vent, etc). In a perfect Nazi world I believe that every decal application would have been dead on perfect--where they wanted it. That was their specifications. The fact that we see many decals off center can only be due to human error IMO.
Imagine that you are a decal applicator(ess) doing the same monotonous, boring job month after month. Perhaps your mind is wandering and thinking about the war and what might happen to you and your family if it is lost.
Perhaps many of these SS decals are tilted to one side because in the applicators mind he/she was placing the SS runes perpendicular (to bottom edge of helmet)instead of to the edge of the decal by mistake. This would certainly not be outside of the norm for a boring, repeditive, monotonous job like helmet decal applicator. Such tasks can cause the mind to do strange things.
I certainly do not believe that it was purposely done that way.
See Goodapple Vol.I pp.59-61 for other examples.

I think its very likely, especially at the time these M42 helmets were being decaled, that forced labor was used in the making/assembly of these helmets. If so their only concen if the decal was applied tilted is if would cause attention to them.

The helmet on p.59 that has a similarly tilted shield is an M35 blackie. This was made, I would think, long before slave labor in helmet factories was an issue.

If slave labor alone accounts for the M42s with tilted decals, why, as someone asked, are many of these tilted in the same manner, and not in other angles? I guess it is possible that certain slave laborers wanted to get back at the Reich by applying ****-eyed decals, but IMO the manner of consistency of the angle would seem to indicate a type of tunnel vision by the applicators due to repetition and monotony. Its as if they were applying/adjusting only the black runes of the decal and did not see the white shield. While the runes may look better slightly tilted to the left, the white shield is obviously crooked. If they liked the runes this way, could they not have designed a new decal with the runes tilted to the left in reference to the shield?

These M42 SS helmets have lot numbers that I believe place them in the narrow window between the time the CKL mark began to be used and the time that decals were dropped at the factories (8/28/43).

The M35 I feel is a application error due to the lack of others, the ckl M42 show a pattern. The forced labor, which in my opinion is different than slave labor, is to counter the thought of " In a perfect Nazi world I believe that every decal application would have been dead on perfect--where they wanted it. That was their specifications. The fact that we see many decals off center can only be due to human error IMO. "
Wether its done in simple error or on purpose I feel we never will know but its my opinion strict "by the book" ethnic Germans were most likely not the ones appling many of these decals at this stage.

Decal appliers....no, perhaps Danish or other west European labourers who went (voluntary or forced by their governments like in Denmark) to Germany to work could have been involved, I would not define them as "slave labourers", they were fed & paid a decent salary in most cases. It could of course also have been German citizens, but who knows, could also have been true slave labourers from the East or from the Concentration Camps. Pure speculation.

The angle and placement of the decals on these helmets does however give speculations if a specific template was used for a limited batch period, so keep on posting all your examples including numbers.

Hi guys, there is another here:
http://majorplm.com/collections/Coll-G-Helmets/SS-M.42-...0M42%20SD-02a%20.jpg

Nice special helmets! Here is my contribution, a minor used ckl 68 with normal decal and nr. 2669. Interesting topic. Best, norge

Could it be possible that the decal moved,rotated, etc, after it was applied in the correct position? Just food for thought. I really do not know. I hope everyone has a nice day.

martin

Another ckl batch number 3022

Currently for sale at... www.bands-militaria.com

For Sale Link

Here is a M40 ET62 Batch 879. A little tilt the other way...........Jimmy

Viper,

Super looking helmet. Any more ckl in collections?

42 ckl 64 batch 3140:the decal underneath being a bit tilted and "corrected" by another one applied over it

Here is one for sale now on ebay! Nice original off set ckl. Here is on of the pictures the seller sent me. Ken

quote:

Originally posted by shu:
My tilted one. I've neverseen a repro or a fake with a tilted decal... yet!

Shu

Shu,

You spoke too soon! Soon after this thread a fake appears.

Fake ET SS Decal

It is the same helmet as Ken's post above.

OK, Bryan. I shouldn't have said "never." By the way, I can't see the picture in the link. This one's "service unavailable."

Shu

i have now rented this helmet for a while from charles.........but was wondering if anybody has a picture of a ss decal being applied in the factory or in the field...........nice helmet bryan , would'nt it be great if we could get all the tilted et lids owned by members on this forum together for a couple of great pictures, now that would be something . yes i think your right thats seems the best explanation to me " done so to keep the runes straight " i guess we will never know........
cheers gents

slim

slim

quote:

Originally posted by Foamspoon:
Another ckl batch number 3022

Currently for sale at... www.bands-militaria.com

For Sale Link

Hey FS,

That one has been there a longtime now.
I dont like the decal on it, not saying its not good,just that its not to my liking.

Here is another one on http://www.cammomilitairy.com/. A ckl production number 3159. Decal looks good.

Bryan