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#82831 07/03/2007 02:56 AM
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This is a 14th SS Galicia flag from the battle of Brody, thats not dirt on it, remember the 14th was wiped out by the Russians at the battle of Brody and this flag was there.

g24t

resizedP9250001_(2).JPG (69.77 KB, 568 downloads)
#82832 07/03/2007 03:28 AM
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G24t,,,if it really is, then in my opinion its a very rare and desirable [to some] flag!...
I know a 14thSS vet, also UPA ,OUN vets..Fiercely patriotic and proud of their colors they'd love to see this.
Where has it been all these years? How did you come across this flag?

#82833 07/03/2007 03:47 AM
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I can assure you its real, its been in storage since 1945. It has never been washed and shows it. This flag came from someone very close to me that traded a Russian soldier for it in Berlin. I am 99.9% its real.
g24t

#82834 07/03/2007 04:03 AM
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I truely truely hope this is the real deal ..I know there are the photos of one in the books. Have you tried to compare, measurement/scale wise to see if they are roughly the same?

Any tags or markings on it? What kind of material? What type of attachment to the pole does it have?

Please, a few more photos..

*

#82835 07/03/2007 01:02 PM
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I will try to send more photographs, for some reason after I downloaded some photographs of my Itailan SS last night, I can't reduce my photographs anymore, maybe it just me. I have never done any measuements or comparison, as I new the man who brought it back. He told me when I was young to never wash it, now I know why.
g24t

#82836 07/03/2007 02:10 PM
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new photos

resizedp7030001_(3).jpg (81.34 KB, 521 downloads)
#82837 07/03/2007 02:12 PM
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another view

resizedp7030002_(4).jpg (66 KB, 511 downloads)
#82838 07/03/2007 02:40 PM
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The flag is double sided, looks like cotton, it is two pieces of cloth sewn together. the swaz is sewn in, the circle is sewn in, there is a place for a rope to go completly through the end of the flag, like a kregsmarine, there are no markings that I can see.
g24t

#82839 07/11/2007 08:46 PM
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I'am not really into flags and banners but this one did catch my eye.

Have a look here...one for sale:

for sale

Regards,

Peter


Kind regards,

Peter Jan
#82840 07/12/2007 03:18 AM
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thank you k******naak for this posting...
Sure does seem odd that this rare flag now has 2 examples... and after being'''wiped out'' on the eastern front!!!!!
you may have exposed a scam in the making.....
To the original poster of this topic. how about some up close pics of your ""rare flag''' bunting, swaz, rondel, etc...to dispel any questions of this ''rare''flag,,, and your intentions....

i am sure by now you have figured out how to operate your camera, etc...., and the helmet shown in your pic too!!!
thank you...

#82841 07/12/2007 06:59 AM
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Sorry guys..I see the link doesn't work without a password.
Well here the detailed ad. It comes from http://www.germanmilitariacollectables.com. classifieds. The seller claimes he doesn't know anything of the flag but does know its worth something and needs $2000,- for it.
Seeing that the pictures are in a classifieds I would think there is no problems creating healthy discussion and some extra exposure of the item for sale.
"For sale is one German Regimental flag. This flag is stained but in very good condition for its age. It is 3 part construction and does not glow under black lights. I got this at an estate sale. The man who was in charge said his father had brought it back from Germany but he could not remember which regiment it belonged to. I have tried researching without any luck. If any one knows please email me".

101_0104.jpg (21.58 KB, 430 downloads)

Kind regards,

Peter Jan
#82842 07/12/2007 01:08 PM
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Huuuummhhhhh! I know but little of German Regimental colours, but they probably follow a more or less fixed pattern for same type units just as US Regimentals do. At first I thought it a huge coincidence that two such flags would surface at the same time. However, even with the really bad photos on germanmilitariacollectibles website it is evident from the stains in the roundel that this is indeed the same flag. Something is going on here and it smells very fishy indeed. Perhaps G24t can enlighten us?
Cheers,
-Mike


Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum.
#82843 07/13/2007 04:53 AM
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I like to be polite and give everyone the benefit of the doubt,,and as much as I like to be a believer,, I just can't believe 2 of these would surface around the same time..

Both are in the same condition,,both stained similar. Are the stains exact? they don't look exactly the same,but we could be looking at different sides of the flag..
Same flag different stories, different flags?

G24t,,,please fill us in.........Thanks , G.

*

#82844 07/15/2007 10:29 AM
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I guess the silence says enough...


Kind regards,

Peter Jan
#82845 07/18/2007 11:51 PM
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I guess my silence is because I really have a job and have not read the posting in the last week. Whats this about a scam. The german helmet has nothing to do with the flag just something I thought looked nice on the flag. This flag has never been offered for sale. It has never been on a web site. Being there were no hits on the flag issue I quit looking at the replies. Sorry you feel that this is a scam but you give me to much credit, I just learned how to post photographs on this web site.
g24t

#82846 07/19/2007 12:00 AM
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Look close at my flag, its not the same. Someone needs to be a little more trusting.
g24t

rIMG_0300_(2).JPG (87.53 KB, 326 downloads)
#82847 07/19/2007 12:00 AM
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first photo other side

rIMG_0301_(2).JPG (88.79 KB, 318 downloads)
#82848 07/19/2007 12:03 AM
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the color of the upper part is gold, not yellow in my photograph, still learning to take photographs with my new camera.

#82849 07/19/2007 12:26 AM
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Mark;

Are these photographs close enough for you to see now.
g24t

#82850 07/19/2007 12:49 PM
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Yes, with the new photos I can see some differences in the stain patterns. It is still very strange to have two nearly identical flags appear at the same time, though. Perhaps we are all getting a bit jaded by the number of fakes and scams on line that we are often somewhat hasty. It is a nice and unusual flag.
Cheers,
-Mike


Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum.
#82851 07/19/2007 01:23 PM
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Mike, thanks for your reply. I have never tried to scam anyone, Yes, its cost me dearly in the past for some fakes that I bought, but that was my fault.
again thanks.
g24t

#82852 07/19/2007 03:46 PM
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I also believe you have your flag upside down. The gold should be on the bottom, and the blue on the top. Big Grin

#82853 07/19/2007 03:52 PM
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your probly right, i did not know which way it went.
g24t

#82854 07/19/2007 03:54 PM
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I was just trying to make it look like the one some people were saying that I copied. Make the swaz like the one in the forum they were comparing mine to.
g24t

#82855 08/13/2007 06:25 PM
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Walt:

Actually the colors should be yellow on top and blue on the bottom. During the war, it was considered as the war-flag - with yellow and blue, while the political flag (the same as in modern Ukraine) was blue over yellow.

Now to the flag. Am sorry to say this but its a well made copy with fake staining added to make it look old (already appearence of TWO such flags with same similar staining makes you wonder). The crucial mistake that the fakers made was not studying the photographs. When Littlejohn did a drawing in his book, he did not nottice that the horseman carrying the flag had the flag wrapped around the pole, so that the flag would not touch the ground. This creates vision of swastika roundel being to the side. This in turn was copied by the Littlejohn in his book and also by the fakers. In reality the roundel should be in the middle. On my site I have the photo and a modified image of how the real flag should look like.

Cheers
http://ssgalicia.onestop.net/flags.html

#82856 08/13/2007 10:06 PM
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I am not going to keep defending the flag, I feel that it is right. But its whatever it is. I sent a photograph of the flag to the following address. strumkomanda@yahoo.com about two years ago, they wanted the flag for their collection of the 14th SS. If the stains are fake, They have been fake in excess of 40 years.
I know the person from whom I got the flag. I know the site you refer to, i also have the same photograph. There were some insults concerning me and the flag early on, I proved the flag I own is not the flag pictured on the web site the other one was on. But, I feel good about it and like the song goes, you have to please yourself. Anyway thanks for the information.
g24t

rP8130013_(2).JPG (28.11 KB, 230 downloads)
#82857 08/13/2007 11:59 PM
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Razzi like flags know my stuff on them and im not saying it fake or original.but it just doiesnt look right with the roundel off center. it would look more correct with it in the center but just my view. if a person would look at the last posted pic u will see what i mean Big Grin

#82858 08/14/2007 01:13 AM
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All I have is the person who gave it to me years ago, a WW2 vet. Who knows, the japanese flag had the sun off centered for the navy and middle for the army. I don't know, Like I said, I have the same book. If all we have is a photograph of maybe a flag not fully unfurled or what ever, who knows. I am satified with it, thats all that counts, if it is right that is a big bonus for me, if its wrong, it did not cost me anything, it was a gift from my uncle. The vet was my uncle. Anyway, the information is good, my uncle got it from someone else, he said while he was in Europe, either way it won't interfere with my sleep tonight and hope no one's else.
g24t

#82859 08/14/2007 05:15 AM
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G24t .....I'm not a 'Flag Person' but I am a 25+ year collector of TR artifacts.The 'time-line' and 'pedigree' of your Unique Flag speaks volumes about your singular piece. I'd suggest (if at all possible) that you obtain a written documentation by your Uncle of the events & circumstances of his obtaining the Flag. Then have his signature Notarized, just for posterity.

In following, and being active in, this hobby - I have seen opinions change & the 'Fake' become real & vice versa. Not enough knowledge / information is out there - for these 'Unusual' items IMHO.

a) Just take a look at the 'Cat Fight' over the Engraved NSKK which is going on right now - lack of TR Period Knowledge?
b) Or, consider that SS-Researcher has recently located > 50,000 names of SS NCO's & EM's - which no one knew existed & we were all told, would Never be found?

We ALL still have a 'lot' to learn. The bottom line is that you feel good about the Flag & you are proud of it - - and you have no intention of selling it. Good for you.

Askold - WOW, your Site is just outstanding. It is well laid out & easy to Read. Good Going!!!
http://ssgalicia.onestop.net/flags.html
I have bookmarked it - as I love to learn more about the brave SS 14th Galicians! Keep adding more, so we learn more.

The main purpose of our Hobby (for Collectors, as I see it) is the sheer Enjoyment of the TR Articles & the enrichment of our historical knowledge of WW2 - and not that of a consideration of a financial return for our TR Treasures. (That, I will leave to others._

G24t ... You enjoyed your Flag & wished to Share your 'find' with us.
That's perfectly fine with me!! Enjoy, Dave / dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
#82860 08/14/2007 01:19 PM
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I would love to speak to my uncle some more and hear some stories about the war. He died in 1997. He was a tech sargent an fought from north Afrika to Germany. The photo graph here was taken August 15, 1943 in Europe. He never spoke much about the war. He did tell me that he had a box full of daggers and pistols. When he boarded the ship to come home, the ship captain said, all you army boys bring your stuff to the deck, my navy boys did not get any souviners and you are goning to share yours with them, if you don't, you will be locked up the entire voyage. He lost most of his stuff.
g24t

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#82861 08/14/2007 10:37 PM
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Razzi remember my dad telling me he had a bunch of japanese swords and when they got on the ship to come home, the officers confiscated them. bastards Big Grin

#82862 08/15/2007 07:05 PM
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IN MY COLLECTION, I HAVE A PRESENTATION PHOTO ALBUM PRESENTED TO HEINRICH HIMMLER BY FRITZ FREITAG, COMMANDER OF THE GALACIAN DIVISION. ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS COVER THE FINAL WEEK OF THE DIVISION'S TRAINING, INCLUDING BOTH GRADUATION AND A GRADUATION DINNER. THE ALBUM HAS MANY PHOTOS INCLUDING FLAGS. ALL OF THE FLAGS SHOWN ARE EITHER THE STANDARD POLITICAL OR SS FLAGS. IF THE 14TH SS GALACIAN DIVISION CARRIED A FLAG SUCH AS THIS AS THEIR UNIT COLORS, IT CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENT BOTH AT THEIR GRADUATION AND THE GRADUATION DINNER IN A PROMINENT PLACE. I BELIEVE THIS PIECE TO BE A TOTAL FANTASY ITEM ALONG WITH IT'S PROVENANCE.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#82863 08/15/2007 09:22 PM
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Bob, the 14th had 2 versions of their own division flags... One looks exactly like the one that started this topic. The other had the Trident center..

#82864 08/15/2007 11:03 PM
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This string is getting a little to hot again. Sorry I ever displayed this flag on the forum. I am saying now, lets just drop the flag and move on. I have been accused of a few things that were proven wrong, The flag will go back into the box it came out of and will go to my grand children. Some times it like cut/slash and burn here. I have a lot of very collectible stuff and I feel that I will keep it to my self.
G24t

#82865 08/15/2007 11:06 PM
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Also, bob the remark about the total fantasy about my uncle, is really out of line.
g24t

#82866 08/16/2007 03:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by G24t:
Also, bob the remark about the total fantasy about my uncle, is really out of line.
g24t


TAKE IT EASY. THE PROVENANCE IS NOT FROM YOUR UNCLE BUT THE GUY HE GOT IT FROM.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#82867 08/16/2007 03:39 AM
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Smilecant we all just get it on, hehe Big Grin

#82868 08/24/2007 02:42 AM
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Hi Johny:

I AM the owner of the site and that was my email adress that you wrote to. Your letter is not two years old but only 9 months and I never asked to purchase your flag, all I asked was to see the photos to whch you never replied:

Johnny Head 14th SS panzer Galicia Unit flag. Sun Nov 12, 2006 6k I have an original flag from the 14th SS Galicia, it was taken from the battle of Brody, I also have a helmet from the battle. If you like, I can e-mail you photographs for Your display

- Saying that, all the best to you, if you are happy with this flag than thats all that matters.

dblmed Dave:
Thank you for the warm comments, its always nice to know that the work I've done is appreciated.

Bob Coleman:

Your album is fantastic and thank you once again for leting me see it. If you ever choose to part with it, please let me know ! Wink

As for the flags:

The one with the swastika was a very early model which lasted very shortly during the parade. The flags that we actually do see during parades and further ceremonies are either blue/black/purple, with Ukrainian or Galician coat of arms in the middle. Veteran flags that can be seen in Veteran clubs are all based on this design.

#82869 08/24/2007 03:11 AM
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Here are some flags that were actually used:

1. The volunteers receive their flag in 1943. As you can see its a blue or purple with Galician shield in the middle.

flag1.jpg (44.37 KB, 51 downloads)
#82870 08/24/2007 03:14 AM
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Detail:

P.S. Interesting detail - two getns wearing toxidos on the left side are representaives of Japanese guvernment who were very interested in forming Ukrainian units - they were hoping to raise Ukrainian national units in the Manchugo provide in the FAr East.

flag2.jpg (16.35 KB, 51 downloads)
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