UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Masonic Dagger

Houston,
Any chance you could post some pics of that extraordinary piece you picked up at the MAX? Although I'll probably never find another one like it, I'd like to have a reference point from which to start. A fabulous dagger - appreciated by a relatively small audience.

Thanks,
Andy

OK Andy--Here it is. Very rare-only one known of this kind. Believed to be made by the Danzig ****nal at about the turn of the century as it has a crown stamp and another with a C over it. Has the symbols of the lodge on the blade. On the reverse of the crossguards is the Scotish Rite double headed eagle. Grip is bone-skull is of some type of celluloid-looks hand carved but is not. Skull and bones looks threatening but also indicates our eventual fate. Believed to be the sidearm of the Sentinal for the Scotish Rite.

PS--Could'nt get that word in above of the name of the place where weapons are made

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Wow Houston--what a beautiful and unique dagger!

I didn't understand this part:

quote:

PS--Could'nt get that word in above of the name of the place where weapons are made

It the name an expletive in the English spelling or something?

The word contains the word for someone's BE HIND

I looked on the internet-found some Masonic Museums-but no daggers like this.

Houston,
Thanks. Great pictures and most appreciated!

Double Thanks................

I was lucky enough to see this beauty at MAX....Thanks to Andy for asking to see it and Thanks to Houston for supplying such great pix.
Now I can share this with my fellow 'travelers'..

I've seen many old and ornate Masonic Knights of Templar swords and daggers but I have no idea if they are common or rare. Some are dedicated pieces. Are there any reference books for these? What kind of a market exists for these pieces?

Swords are common and sell for $60-$150 depending on condition and quality. Daggers that are old are very very rare and seldom seen. This one would have to be the best of the best. I had a couple of very substantial offers for it

Houston,
That is a realy cool dagger.

I have been a "Tyler" for as few years and held many masonic swords but that is the first dagger with an etched blade I have seen. Super condition as well.

Any idea why the square and compass is in the fellowcraft position?

Hi Hyram ! Maybe the other side of the blade has both "points" under the square and depending on what Degree was going on that side would be face up ??
I never learned that much about the SR , I stayed on the Blue side myself ..Royal Arch does not use anything like this that's for sure.
I kow some Rituals differ from Europe to the US so ..

Houston any comments on this one?

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/Elaborate-British-Maso...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Looks like a great item-wish I could see better photos

Yes , this is a "Freimaurer " dagger .Very nice.

Hello All

I see there are more Brothers, Arch Masons and Nobles on this site than I had imagined!

Houston, this is one of the nicest Masonic Items I've seen in years....You certainly have an eye for quality.

Danzig A r s e n a l

Just trying to see if I can fool big brother!

Nice dagger Houston, you can really tell a differents between that crappy one posted in the SS forum and yours.

Houston,
Man o Man! Just an incredible super nice dagger. What's the age and what is the pommel skull made of? Thanks

This is a gentleman's dagger w/ alot of symbolism just not sure if it's a masonic type, probably not.

.

Wow! that's a fine piece too. Not masonic though.

Houston,
Snagged this piece a couple of weeks ago. Not nearly the quality of yours, but a rather unique dagger none the less. The grip, although appearing to be bone or ivory, is I believe more akin to an army grip. Looking forward to seeing you at the SOS.
Andy

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Very nice Andy-where did that one come from?

There was one of these for sale at a gunshow here awhile ago that was very similiar in style to the one Houston owns but not nearly as elaborate. The dealer was trying to peddle it as a SS "prototype" dagger for around $2,000 and got a little irate when I told him it's true purpose!
Jim

Andy, A very nice example of a fraternal dagger!!

Jim, Unless they are really obnoxious - most times I don’t try to enlighten dealers as to what they really have because they often react badly. At a local show a short while back a guy not only had a fake “SS” dagger. But he also had “this is the real article” SS combat bayonet. Of course the fact that the “SS” bayonet bore an amazing resemblance to the Spanish Model 1943 (copy of the German 98K) is probably what kept my wallet firmly planted in my pocket for either or both items, and I just didn’t feel like trying to educate him. Oh Well ................. FP

Fred:
You are right and I've basically stopped enlightening them but this guy was really being a jerk. I've also quit emailing sellers of bad items for the same reason and also after getting some nasty replies. There's a bad etched Army up for sale right now that someone will eventually get burned on.
I think the fraternal examples shown in this thread are collectors items in their own right and don't need any false attributions.
Jim

I dont think I have ever seen a dagger such as this with exception of the Ebay fakes. Generally at show's and I guess its from 3 years of reading topics I can spot a lot of fakes, and generally I will look at the rest of the guy's table, if the bulk is good, then maybe I might try and enlighten him. Usually I just walk away, no sense in arguing anymore. I just walk the isles and hope to see something I like.

I did have one guy when I was selling a Garand and he lowballed me, and when I disagreed with him, he got hostile and told me his watch was 5k and he had a million dollar house and 3 Corvette's and shows were the only things he did, so he must be right. I felt the pressure rise and walked 50 feet and sold the gun for 6 times his offer, then flashed him the cash. It was the closest I have been to an altercation at a show.

An impressive dagger! Congradulations on acquireing it.

Best,

Kris

Houston,
I went on Ebay and found it soon after it was listed. It had a Buy Now price of $275.00 so I grabbed it.

Andy

A great buy! I really like these and they are so RARE!!

There is another very similar sword at Germanias site .. Bob's description is below.. I have include a couple photos . Striking similarities..

DESCRIPTION: Here is a very rare piece of Germanic cult paraphernalia in the form of the skull-decorated dagger of the Illuminati, whose American branch is the Skull and Bones Society at Yale University. Members have included such notables as George Bush and his son “W” as well as their so-called political opponents John Kerry and other draconian figures. These are occultists by every description of the word. George “W” was initiated in 1968 at Yale’s mausoleum chamber known as “The Tomb” when undergraduates broke in they found that the “Holy of Holies’” inner sanctum has red velvet walls and carpet with a large pentagram emblazoned on the wall. All this begins with the Knights Templar that started well in Christian doctrine and protection and propagation of the faith, but unfortunately, degenerated speedily into a mystic pantheism carried even to Idolatry of Nature and intense hatred of all revealed dogma. They recognized the pantheistic symbolism of the grand masters of Black Magic. They rendered divine honors to the monstrous idol Baphomet. The apron of the European Masonic Templar Order has the skull and bones as its central theme. The skull dagger was only used in the highest rites of this templar group as a reminder as it lay on the altar of the penalty of the “blood oath;” usually, the cabala lay opened next to it. Albert Pike was appointed head of the Illuminati operations in the U.S. in 1834. He is quoted as uttering these chilling words: “…and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer.” This dagger represents evil in its most pronounced and historical entity. Most Freemasons in the U.S. in the lower degrees have no understanding of the occult background of the illuminated ones. Even 32nd-degree lodge brothers have no inkling of it, but clandestine groups such as the Skull and Bonesmen know; oh, yes, they know! Also, the 33rd degree is also replete with the occult values. The dagger is quite rare as the grandmasters would never willingly let one go in any instance, but the Freemasons were banned in the Third German Reich of Adolf Hitler. They were considered subversive, occultist, and antiwestern. Many lodges were raided by the SS and German police and in some of the lightening assaults on what the Nazi’s considered dens of vipers, many of the items of Masonic ritual were confiscated and most destroyed. This particular weapon was seized by an SA man who participated in just such a raid in the city of Halle near Leipzig. We were able to buy it from the family. Realizing that evil often is portrayed as beauty it is not surprising that this dagger is absolutely stunning in its design and balance. We believe it was made some time in the 1920s. It is a masterpiece of the sword- and dagger-maker’s art. Probably manufactured in Solingen it measures about 15 inches long in its scabbard. The cross guard measures 4 1/2 inches across. The long and lethal-looking blade is 13 inches in length (13)!!! The cross guard and scabbard are heavily-gilded brass. The scabbard is covered in leather. The handle and skull portions are in extra-fine celluloid, similar to the fittings on German Army and Air Force daggers. The leering skull has red stone ruby-like insets. The blade is in excellent condition with finely cut Masonic symbols (8 of them). The square and compass, the skull, the book (what book?), the trowel, the judgment hammer, the pyramid, Solomon’s temple, the cross guards bear the all-seeing eyes, and the square and compass. In many years we have seen only one other of these pieces and that was in a European museum. The dagger is in excellent shape. The blade stops a little from completely entering the scabbard because of some leather shrinkage often seen in such items. Here is the rarest of the rare, evil as all hell, but beautiful!

another closeup

blade

Happy,
What a great looking item. Any chance you could post the web site? Thanks.

Andy

Very nice dagger-looks to have been made by the same company.A big difference besides the color is that mine has the 32 nd degree eagles. Like mine though-IMO this is strictly a masonic dagger-and there is no evil or anything sinister about it whatsoever.

the web address for Germanias page that this masonic dagger is on is
http://www.germaniainternational.com/kweapons3.html
I thought it particularly interesting that George Bush is a member of some skull and bones society .. Not that that really has anything to do with the dagger .. It is unique as is the one you have .. It appears that it is for sale also..

Houston,
Found this at an antique show this weekend, a miniature Knights Templar sword which I never knew existed, Its about the lenght of a miniature Luft sword (10 inchs).

Andy

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Very nice Andy-I have never seen one either.