UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum another serial numbered Nordmark SA

Great information. This thread has been very informative for me. Thank you. It is interesting to me that so few numbered SA daggers are seen but the possible number stamped by the Nordmark SA or brigade 15 could be several thousand perhaps?

RH, yes should be several thousands. It boggles my mind the initial order for SA daggers was like 3 million. Even though they seem plentiful at times, I bet over 90% have been destroyed by now...just a guess...


John

I find some (very little) internet info on Nordmark Gruppenfuhrer Mayer-Quade and his messages to the troops regarding crystalnacht in 1938. Is this his first (Mayer) and last name (Quade), or is this a hyphenated last name? Any into on that from the paper thesis?

Is my understanding correct here. The Nordmark SA Gruppenfuhrer was to the SA as the Nordmark Gau leiter was to the party (rank equiv)?

Thanks,

RHanson

Here is the link to the Martin Schuster paper that Gustavo commissioned - it will provide you with a lot of info and is great reading.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/160093573/...880054304#6880054304

Regards
Russell

I was just refering to the original copy of the 1937 party organization book which I have a copy of. It shows total then of 33 Gau and 21 SA Gruppe. A SA Gruppe is made up of several Brigades, a Brigade is several Standarte, a Standarte is several Sturmbann, etc.

Some questions:

- Since the daggers would probably been stamped early, who was in charge of Nordmark around 1930 (still Quade)? Is it known who was in charge of Brigade 15? Was he the guy that required dagger stampings?

- I note that there was a Reiterstandarte 15 within Brigade 15. Since one of the daggers was stamped BR 15/5digits, I assume all 15/5digit stamped daggers mean Brigade 15/ausweiss man #. Does this sound right?

- Where does the 84 number stamp fit into the Nordmark SA? I don't see a reference for that number?

The above link to Herr Schuster's paper did not work but I did find it in a search. The 307 pages of German technical paper seemed a bit much for my meager translation skills. And putting it into a translation program made the computer go tilt but thanks for the thought anyway.

I just called in leader of the SA in our Gau (upper Midwest USA). He has a few numbered SA's and promised to get me the info on them. I hope to post that in the future.

RHanson

I thought the link worked - try this one - the paper is 22 pages, so you may have been looking at something else. It's also in English.

Regards
Russell

http://www.geocities.com/gustavomartina/MartinSchuster_...per_finalversion.pdf

Thank you so much for the link. That is a great read. I would hate to do that much research and give all those references. I hope he gets his doctorate.

Some items that struck me were:

- The 5 digit numbers would not have to be early members always, since the 5 digit number was not unique to the man but went along with the group also.

- The "84" stamp on some daggers would probably be from Standarte 84 of the 16 Brigade.

Johnson is currently offering a ground Rohm one
by EP&S stamped 22Nm618 which stamping is similar to my ground Rohm by EP&S stamped
26B612 currently being discussed in the Rohm forum under a thread started by 3FL

The name of Gruppe Nordmark�s leader in 1938 was Meyer-Quade, and his full title, "Polizeipr�sident und SA-F�hrer der Gruppe Nordmark" the local NSDAP leader was Kreisleiter der NSDAP Kiel, Otto Ziegenbein. Both took leadership roles in the murders of local Jewish citizens, burning of Kiel synagogue etc in 1938.

If youre interested in what Quade�s "boys" and in particular Brigade 16, Standarte 85 etc were up to in 1938, there is a German summary of the events here
http://www.studienkreis-widerstand-1933-45.de/archiv/xxinfo/he48pogr.html

Heres a quick Google "translation" of the key passage mentioning the role of Brigades 16, 85 etc

Meyer-Quade telephoned the staff leader of the group of SA of Nordmark in Kiel, high leader Carsten Volquardsen, to attack and destroy Jewish business and synagogs in civilian clothes. Volquardsen passed these instructions on to the most important SA leaders in Schleswig-Holstein: to the SA brigade 16 in Schleswig (Oberf�hrer Clausen), the SA Standarte 162 in Luebeck (Oberf�hrer Dr. W�hrer), the SA Standarte 85 in Heide(Standartenf�hrer K�hler) and the SA Standarte 265 in Pinneberg (Standartenf�hrer Becker). .....

Thanks for the Quade link. I did find some info on Joachim Meyer-Quade, apparently a high nsdap official with other jobs than Nordmark. My only interest was how it all tied in with SA dagger numbering. I think it is starting to make some sense to me. It seems anyone could put their ausweiss number on a crossguard (which was usually a 5 digit number or below) but without the Gau (SA Gruppe) and brigade number it really would be hard to know where the dagger came from. Even with all that info, you still can't find the man's id since there are no central records of SA ausweiss numbers.

Gustavo, thanks for that. Anything that adds to the history of these pieces is desirable.

heres mine

My contribution.
Good to see so many of these daggers still survive and been shown on this forum.

Very cool. Wow Slayer, that upper scabbard fitting really was pounded! I think on my example, they must have removed the fitting to stamp it, or inserted some kind of support into the scabbard when they applied the numbers.

Interesting how many carl Wusthof's there are for Nm. I'll have to check the other posting and see how many Wusthofs were marked Nm overall.

Thanks, John

Interesting where they stamped the number on this scabbard and how they did it: