UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum another serial numbered Nordmark SA

just bought this Carl Wustrof from Paul, the Lakeside Trader himself (his pics). Nice guy. He tells me the piece looks much better in real life than on pictures.

I am happy to own this, as it will be my second 'serial numbered' SA from the Nordmark Gruppe. This one belonged to a member of a Reiter (rider) Standarte in Nordmark. I happen to own an original 1935 instruction book by Oscar Milberg, Gruppenreiterf�hrer Nordmark, the boss of this SA's owner.

From the Axis History Factbook: Each SA Reiter group was commanded by a Gruppenreiterf�hrer who was subordinate to the Reichsinspekteur of the NSRK. The Gruppenreiterf�hrer were trained at the SA-Gruppen-Reiterschule. At least 100 SA Reiter-standarten existed, ...Members of the Reiter-SA wore crossed lances (in silver or gilt metal) on their collar tabs.

The Nationalsozialistische Reiterkorps (NSRK) was formed 1937. It was a headed by a Reichsinspekteur who was subordinate to the SA leader. It's main objective was to help SA-members to pass the test required to be qualified for the mounted units of Heer and Waffen-SS.

full view

next to my other Nordmark SA

Nordmark reiter SA book 1

Nordmark Reiter SA book 2

A nice dagger you've picked up there Gustavo. I enjoy reading the research you put in on each piece.

Correction: The 'R' can stand for either Reiter or Reserve.

Gustavo, these are two very nice daggers with interesting stampings and not too often seen manufacturers. Congratulations!

Nice daggers Gustavo, here is one of my sa daggers my carl wusthof that is numbered

Wow just realized that the R84 matches your dagger, I bet these guys got there dagger at about the same time from Wusthof, bet they were good drinking buddies

Yeah...i noticed going through the archives that you had this piece Roy. These two guys belonged to the same (reiter or reserve) standarte 84.... I have asked Dr. Martin Schuster of the University of Berlin (expert in the SA) to hire someone to go to the archives and get all the info on Nordmark SA lists and figure this one out. Ill get back on that when i know more. Ive been reading about Nordmark and, these guys, as is to be expected were involved in serious crimes, like the burning of the synagogue in Kiel in 1938. The guy who gave the order was the Nordmark Gruppenfuhrer at the time, Meyer Quaide in the pic. He ordered his thugs to go in civilian clothes. The Standarte of my other Nordmark dagger (85)participated in this action

Facinating how the serialization is the exact same font and style. Bet they were done the same day!

I live in the Nordmark and wonder by myself that here are no NM SA daggers to find

They are very rare to find here.

I don't have one

And I know why; You have all of these fine daggers

Gentlemen,

Can I join the club?

Here is my Nordmark numbered SA, it's an Eickhorn ground R�hm.

Gustavo,

Very interesting topic you have brought up and fascinating research so it seems, thanks.

Greetings,

Herr Mann

The numbers:

a few more upon receiving the Wusthof

another

more

2 nordmark daggers

anyone know what this is?

hi Gustavo these are the casters marks(piel & adey)

Thanks Seany! thats very useful:

"At the beginning of the twentieth century, Carl Piel and Carl Adey founded the company PIAD, the name by which it is known today. In 1923, the company founders obtained a patent for their "process for the manufacture of contoured metal parts of high melting alloys with more than 50 per cent copper by die casting"; since 1935, the casting of pure copper has also been possible."

And another:

My dagger....

more

3

Anyone else notice that 90+ % of the numbered SA daggers are Nm marked. Just about every one I've seen it's usually this gau, just like an "Ascoloupe" mfg everyone I've ever seen is marked Sw.

My EP&S (ground Rohm)is also Nm stamped but the odd thing is that the crossguard is number stamped on the front and the scabbard is stamped on the back. Also the numbers don't seem to follow the other patterns.

Scabbard

Here's another NM group, stamped number dagger. At least for these R84 types, there seems to be a little consistency to the stamping. This example is a PUMA maker marked.

John

Here's my 2 that I've shown before... just to add to this thread:

Interesting, even though these are a different style stampings, it's still the Nm group.

Here is another.

I have been told that the 15 is a brigade number and that the 5 digits is the man's ausweiss number. Anyone have any further info? Would the ausweiss number the same as the man's party number?

Since there are different groups within the SA Nordmark shown, could the leap be made that perhaps the order to id your dagger came down for most of the Nordmark SA's at least early on? Maybe not, since I have seen more numbered SA daggers on this thread than anywhere else in many years of looking.

Hi RH Hanson, the Ausweis number was only the SA ID card, issued by the SA gruppe, and completely separate from the NSDAP party number. if you read Martin Schuster�s paper on this you will have a pretty thorough understanding of this issue (seach for Schuster in this forum)

Hi RH, I like the ST1 stamped into the wood. Could that mean Standarte 1, or rather, what is the next smaller sub-group called in German? Maybe Gustavo can help with that.

Best, John

these daggers come from Brigade 15, Gruppe Nordmark, with HQ in Itzehoe, Breitenburgertrasse 15.

Brigade 15 was made up of:

Standarte 31 (with Sturmbahne I-IV),
Standarte 85 (I-IV again),
Standarte 163 (I-III),
Standarte 212 (unknown Sturmbanne),
Standarte 265 (I-IV),
Standarte R31 (R as in Reserve) (I-III), Standarte R85 (I-IV),
Reiterstandarte 15 (5 Reitersturme), Pionierstandarte P85.

It also had one Sanitatsturm and one Nachrightensturm (communications).

Ah, so ST1 is probably Sturmbahne I.....very good. Thanks Gustavo! John

quote:

Originally posted by seany:
hi Gustavo these are the casters marks(piel & adey)

Piel & Adey is still in business, but the company is now known as PIAD. Here is it's history:

http://www.koguss.de/html/english-001002

Cool, I think we can order some more crossguards! I wonder which metal that would be....hehehe