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#72635 03/26/2008 09:04 PM
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Hi everyone,

Here are some pics of three Royal Bulgarian Army daggers that I have in my collection. The center dagger is unique as it carries the monogram of King Simeon where as the other 2 daggers are of King Boris III. I attempted a close up shot to show the difference in these monograms. One dagger was made by Robert Klaas and the other two are unmarked. There are many other minor differences to observe between these daggers when you compare them in hand. Please feel free to give your opinions or ask questions about these pieces.

Thanks,
Gary

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pic2

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pic3

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Hi Gary,
On behalf of all collectors I want to thanks for your kindness to share with us your amazing collection of Bulgarian edged weapons and to support your initiative.
Just to provoke an attention to this subject Iíll post two pictures from my modest collection.

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Sorry something wrong with my computer or with me I don't know !!!!!!!

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pc 2

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Pesho, your Army daggers look to be in mint condition and are without question, stunning examples! Razz Also, congratulations on finding one with the scarce vertical hanger. I have 2 sets of cloth Army hangers however, an excellent condition vertical hanger has always eluded me.

Are either of your daggers maker marked and are they the 1st or 2nd models?

Do you have any information regarding what companies in Bulgaria were manufacturing edge weapons? It would seem that Eickhorn, Robert Klaas and to a lesser degree, Holler were the main Solingen producers of these edge weapons. However, I can not substantiate any information regarding what firms were producing them in Bulgaria. Any information you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Gary

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Here is one of my army daggers with hangers.

Gary, I have two vertical hangers. I can email you seperately on them.

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Reverse

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My second one with different hangers.

I will check the blade but I think both are the same

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What is this one. This is what I call the 1947 Army. This has only the insigia on the front and it has the metal grip. This is the worst blade I have ever seen but it is a non standard blade so it came with this.

Jim

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Gary,
The daggers with vertical hangers is 1st model and is marked Robert Klaas.
As far as I know all Bulgarian Army dagger 1st model were manufacturing by Robert Klaas only.

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the blade

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Reverse

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Gary,
I donít know where are made 2nd model but I can show the differences between 1st and 2nd model.:
Ė the blade are same but 2nd model is without marker mark.
Ė 1st model has silver plated crossguard

Left 2nd model

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Jim, those are among best looking examples of Army daggers that I've see. Thank you for showing them to us.

Those red colored hangers with your first dagger are most unusual. I love the way they look along side of the Army dagger. I have not seen them in that color. Do you have any additional information about them?

Any makers marks on these pieces?

The unusual looking dagger is what I have always known to be called "ersatz". It basically means that it was a replacement or substitute for the original design. As you stated, these are post WWII (communist period)and that is why only the Bulgarian Lion is on the cross guard. Again, this is just my understanding so maybe Pesho can give us his opinion.

Please feel free to email me about the vertical hangers that you have.

Thank you,
Gary

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Pesho, great side by side comparisons of these daggers. Am I correct that the reverse side of the cross guard between the 1st and 2nd models has a slight difference in the swords?

Pesho, I agree that Robert Klaas must have been the only producer of these Army daggers. Every example known to me has either been marked "Robert Klaas" or unmarked. However, I have noticed some slight variations in them that makes me wonder if they had some other suppliers providing them some of the parts. It's just speculation on my part.

Pesho, for clarification, are you saying that you do not know who produced Bulgarian daggers that were made in Bulgaria?

Thank you,
Gary

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Jim
Thank you for showing your daggers to us.
For a first time I see those red colored hangers .Except of Bulgarian Red cross and Brannik leader daggers I have seen all other hangers .
Gary I know that you have Bulgarian red cross dagger, do you have and hangers please ?
Regarding the unusual looking dagger Ė until end of 1947 Royals uniforms were in used so,maybe and the daggers too.Who knows ?

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Pesho, I found this old (and poor quality) picture of my Medical officers dagger hangers. If need be, I will get them out of storage and take some better shots. Just let me know.

Gary

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Great shot guys.

On the red hangers. They came with the dagger. I purchased this from a person in Belgium that is known as an honest man. He told me the hangers came with the dqgger from the original owner.

I do not know more. The fittings seem to be correct, so I was uncertain as to the hangers being for a specific unit. The material seems correct for older felt backed material. Also, there is some wear to the silver brocade where the fittings meat. All fittings are silver plated.

I am open for suggestions.

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Gary,
Thank you to share your Red cross hangers and sorry for inconvenience.
I donít know way I had the stupid filling that the red color hangers and Red cross dagger can make a nice couple.
Jim
I do not doubt that the hangers are Bulgarian Ė all Bulgarian hangers have the same specific clasp for hanging to the belt, I just surprised to see the red colour.
Gary
There are several opinions where the 2nd model was produced.
First that the dagger was produced in Germany but with low budget
Second that some parts are produced in Germany Ė the blades, scabbards and maybe crossguards and the rest parts in Bulgaria - personally I support this hypothesis.
And third that the daggers were made in Bulgaria.
Really I donít know the truth.

The reverse of the crossguards

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Jim, those red hangers are intriguing. At first glance, I would definitely say they have the look of being ďBulgarianď. The main trait that I have questions about is the weave in the material. That silver brocade cloth has a pattern in it unlike any other Bulgarian dagger hanger that Iíve seen. With so many hangers of that time frame being of German manufacturer, there are many that were very similar in appearance. Maybe someone else will recognize them if they are not Bulgarian. In my opinion, thereís no reason to doubt their origin unless it can be proven otherwise. Thanks again for showing them to us.

Gary

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Hi Gary,

I agree with your assumption that the unmarked daggers are in fact of German Manufacture. At least the parts.

I was thinking on the hangers. Just speculation, but many of the colors used on materials in the 30's and 40's were natural colors. These hangers backs actually remind me of burgundy color, which is close to brown, and there could be a fading over time of the original color? A bit of a stretch.

Thank you

Jim

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Hi>>>>
some pictures of my (Bulgarian Army)

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You have some great daggers. Thank you for joining in.

Gary. The hanger he shows is one of those i have. Unfortunately, looking at his, mine has been slightly modified on the bottom. I will be taking photos this afternoon and will get one of the hanger. I will also try and find my second one.

Jim

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The frog snap on the dagger has a manufacturer's name written <<stocko>> any ideas ? do you guys have similar writing ???

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Alexsandr,

It's great to have you join in the discussion and thank you for sharing pics of your beautiful dagger with us. That's a great close up shot of that snap. I'm going to copy that pic and keep it as reference material. Smile Can you tell us if there's a makers mark on your dagger?

Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of those hangers.


Everyone, the more Army daggers that I see, the more I'm convinced that these daggers were produced only by the German firm Robert Klaas regardless if they are maker marked or not. The grip material and color, scabbard and cross guard details, etc., all show the same high quality. As we discuss and show other Bulgarian daggers, I think the pics will show the large variation in quality based on the origin or manufacture. One thing that stands out in my collection is grip material. Bulgarian manufactured grip material is much different than German. The material is much more fragile and often times shows manufacturing flaws. Sometimes, the color doesn't seem to have been "mixed" thoroughly. The shape of the handles are somewhat inconsistent, etc. I looking forward to further discussion on this and hearing everyones opinion.

Gary

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Hayabusa2
Thanks ! my dagger has no maker marks on it i mean the blade: only the snap >>>>

Pesho - please check the snap of your dagger's frog> if it has anything ???


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First, let me say I agree with Gary's assumption 100% as to all dagger parts for Bulgarian army daggers came from solingen. I suspect some were contract made with or without maker mark, and others were parts sent to jewelers, uniform suppliers, etc as in France and other civilized countries.

Here are photos of both my hangers. I will tell you I am not sure what to think of the black one, but i did buy it out of Bulgaria.

But, first the brown one.

The markings on the snap is a "CK" at the top, a "O" at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, and possibly something at 6 o'clock that has rusted. The designs on the male snap are all plants. no numbers or letters. Also, note the bottom seems to have been modified.

Note the color of the top of the snap

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back

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Here is the snap

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Here is the black one, looks like a homeade job

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buckle

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back of hanger

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Hi guys
Aleksander
Here is the snap

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pc 2

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Jim,

Interesting hangers. I agree that the brown one has been modified. It looks like someone cut that slot in order to fit something like a bayonet that has a "lug" on the scabbard. Also, it's interesting to see that both yours and Pesho's snaps have the same makers mark. That could be another nice piece of information useful in determining if a hanger is authentic or not. In any event, to bad these things can't talk so that we would no the whole story about that modification. Smile

Regarding the black hanger, I've never seen one in that color so it seems a bit unusual to me. Maybe Pesho or Alexandr can offer us their opinions.

Gary

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Can you believe Pesho's snap is the same maker as mine.

I personally like Alexanders in this mess.

Jim

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Gary and Jim,
All Bulgarian vertical hangers which I have seen are brown colour

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Incredible ! I learned something today.

It looks like a vertical hanger for a German Army dagger. Now, the challenge might be to find a photo of people wearing this.

Thanks,
Dave

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I have never came across the black hanger>>Jim very interesting piece >>perhaps these were private purchase........about the snap yea my snap has different writing from you guys>....but the other second snap has the same engraving Wink

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Hi guys
Here is the photo

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Gays,
Sorry for the bad quality of the phote.
Here is a better ones

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Hi Dave.

What a wonderful thought. A black vertical hanger for an army dagger.

Once again, the value of an item in my collection increases for insurance purposes.

Alexandeer, I would not worry about the markings on the snap. Not if i had your hanger.
Jim

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There is an awarded dagger on Ebay for $3,000. I fail to see what ties the dagger to the awards.

Anyone else?

Jim

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item...=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

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Hi Jim
I donít think that there is any connection .The medal is 4th class and cost not more that 150 Usd.
The dagger looks like original 1st model , Iím in two minds regarding the pommel and the grip.
Jim ,what is your opinion ?

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I changed the link above so it will work.

Now that you mention the grip, it looks to be either repaired or very dirty. The dagger is maker marked, but the blade is well worn. The hangers are nothing special. I would say this is your basic $450 dagger.

Jim

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All of these snaps are by Stocko, check the spacing and put the letters together Smile. This firm also appears to have supplied the snaps on period German HJ knife hangers.
I love these daggers by the way, gonna have to get me one of those....gorgeous.

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I think the ebay dagger being discussed has been listed (without success) several times. I don't see anything special that would make it "awarded". You would think that at the very least, it would have a monogram or something personalized about it if it were that special.

Gary

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here's my army with vertical hanger. The snap is Stocko marked, otherwise, unmarked dagger and leather.

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detail

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Beuatiful example Paul. thank you for adding to the thread.

Jim

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Hi Guys, Here is one from my collection to please an eye. This "for bravery" Bulgarian seams to be in an original handling box - as issued at award ceremony. What do you think?





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Hi,
Is there any inscription on the box please?
Some better photos from the blade and crossguard can help. I donít like the pommel Ė looks like 1st model Laborís dagger or Police officerís dagger and definite isnít Armyís one.

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Here is some more shots than:




BTW. no inscription on the box.

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Hi,
My supposition is conformed.As we can see from the photo these grip and pommel don't.Just for comparison - from left to right: Gendarmerie,Army,Police,Labor 1st model,Labor 2nd model.

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Hi,
The grip and pommel don't match.I think that all other parts are Ok and only the grip and pommel don't match.

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1st and 2nd model Labor pommels

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I finally "got" it. The pommel is a replacement.

Jim

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Makes sense guys. Although when you have it in your hand you'd be suprized how well the pommel on my dagger is made. The facts are facts so I will seek an original. Even if not so impresiveSmile

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crazyagain funny one

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