Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#72635 03/26/2008 09:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Hi everyone,

Here are some pics of three Royal Bulgarian Army daggers that I have in my collection. The center dagger is unique as it carries the monogram of King Simeon where as the other 2 daggers are of King Boris III. I attempted a close up shot to show the difference in these monograms. One dagger was made by Robert Klaas and the other two are unmarked. There are many other minor differences to observe between these daggers when you compare them in hand. Please feel free to give your opinions or ask questions about these pieces.

Thanks,
Gary

DSCN0087.JPG (68.88 KB, 546 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic2

DSCN0088.JPG (61.79 KB, 538 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic3

DSCN0090.JPG (67.34 KB, 515 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic4

DSCN0093.JPG (80.92 KB, 517 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic5

DSCN0096.JPG (56.03 KB, 520 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic6

DSCN0100.JPG (95.1 KB, 511 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic7

DSCN0101.JPG (58.41 KB, 501 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
pic8

DSCN0103.JPG (68.43 KB, 504 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Hi Gary,
On behalf of all collectors I want to thanks for your kindness to share with us your amazing collection of Bulgarian edged weapons and to support your initiative.
Just to provoke an attention to this subject I�ll post two pictures from my modest collection.

uniform_navy_001.jpg (50.7 KB, 485 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Sorry something wrong with my computer or with me I don't know !!!!!!!

army_uniform_001.jpg (56.73 KB, 478 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
pc 2

army_uniform_002.jpg (64.4 KB, 431 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Pesho, your Army daggers look to be in mint condition and are without question, stunning examples! Razz Also, congratulations on finding one with the scarce vertical hanger. I have 2 sets of cloth Army hangers however, an excellent condition vertical hanger has always eluded me.

Are either of your daggers maker marked and are they the 1st or 2nd models?

Do you have any information regarding what companies in Bulgaria were manufacturing edge weapons? It would seem that Eickhorn, Robert Klaas and to a lesser degree, Holler were the main Solingen producers of these edge weapons. However, I can not substantiate any information regarding what firms were producing them in Bulgaria. Any information you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Gary

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Here is one of my army daggers with hangers.

Gary, I have two vertical hangers. I can email you seperately on them.

Armypost1.jpg (33.4 KB, 424 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Reverse

Armypost2.jpg (22.8 KB, 416 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
My second one with different hangers.

I will check the blade but I think both are the same

armypost3.jpg (22.61 KB, 415 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
What is this one. This is what I call the 1947 Army. This has only the insigia on the front and it has the metal grip. This is the worst blade I have ever seen but it is a non standard blade so it came with this.

Jim

P1010011.JPG (50.03 KB, 410 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Gary,
The daggers with vertical hangers is 1st model and is marked Robert Klaas.
As far as I know all Bulgarian Army dagger 1st model were manufacturing by Robert Klaas only.

army_uniform_006.jpg (99.29 KB, 396 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
the blade

army_uniform_007.jpg (92.74 KB, 394 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Reverse

army_uniform_009.jpg (97.98 KB, 390 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Gary,
I don�t know where are made 2nd model but I can show the differences between 1st and 2nd model.:
� the blade are same but 2nd model is without marker mark.
� 1st model has silver plated crossguard

Left 2nd model

army_uniform_011.jpg (98.75 KB, 388 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Jim, those are among best looking examples of Army daggers that I've see. Thank you for showing them to us.

Those red colored hangers with your first dagger are most unusual. I love the way they look along side of the Army dagger. I have not seen them in that color. Do you have any additional information about them?

Any makers marks on these pieces?

The unusual looking dagger is what I have always known to be called "ersatz". It basically means that it was a replacement or substitute for the original design. As you stated, these are post WWII (communist period)and that is why only the Bulgarian Lion is on the cross guard. Again, this is just my understanding so maybe Pesho can give us his opinion.

Please feel free to email me about the vertical hangers that you have.

Thank you,
Gary

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Pesho, great side by side comparisons of these daggers. Am I correct that the reverse side of the cross guard between the 1st and 2nd models has a slight difference in the swords?

Pesho, I agree that Robert Klaas must have been the only producer of these Army daggers. Every example known to me has either been marked "Robert Klaas" or unmarked. However, I have noticed some slight variations in them that makes me wonder if they had some other suppliers providing them some of the parts. It's just speculation on my part.

Pesho, for clarification, are you saying that you do not know who produced Bulgarian daggers that were made in Bulgaria?

Thank you,
Gary

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Jim
Thank you for showing your daggers to us.
For a first time I see those red colored hangers .Except of Bulgarian Red cross and Brannik leader daggers I have seen all other hangers .
Gary I know that you have Bulgarian red cross dagger, do you have and hangers please ?
Regarding the unusual looking dagger � until end of 1947 Royals uniforms were in used so,maybe and the daggers too.Who knows ?

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Pesho, I found this old (and poor quality) picture of my Medical officers dagger hangers. If need be, I will get them out of storage and take some better shots. Just let me know.

Gary

Copy_of_Medical_dagger-3.jpg (88.35 KB, 372 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Great shot guys.

On the red hangers. They came with the dagger. I purchased this from a person in Belgium that is known as an honest man. He told me the hangers came with the dqgger from the original owner.

I do not know more. The fittings seem to be correct, so I was uncertain as to the hangers being for a specific unit. The material seems correct for older felt backed material. Also, there is some wear to the silver brocade where the fittings meat. All fittings are silver plated.

I am open for suggestions.

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
P
Offline
P
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 444
Likes: 1
Gary,
Thank you to share your Red cross hangers and sorry for inconvenience.
I don�t know way I had the stupid filling that the red color hangers and Red cross dagger can make a nice couple.
Jim
I do not doubt that the hangers are Bulgarian � all Bulgarian hangers have the same specific clasp for hanging to the belt, I just surprised to see the red colour.
Gary
There are several opinions where the 2nd model was produced.
First that the dagger was produced in Germany but with low budget
Second that some parts are produced in Germany � the blades, scabbards and maybe crossguards and the rest parts in Bulgaria - personally I support this hypothesis.
And third that the daggers were made in Bulgaria.
Really I don�t know the truth.

The reverse of the crossguards

army_uniform_013.jpg (88.06 KB, 305 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Jim, those red hangers are intriguing. At first glance, I would definitely say they have the look of being �Bulgarian�. The main trait that I have questions about is the weave in the material. That silver brocade cloth has a pattern in it unlike any other Bulgarian dagger hanger that I�ve seen. With so many hangers of that time frame being of German manufacturer, there are many that were very similar in appearance. Maybe someone else will recognize them if they are not Bulgarian. In my opinion, there�s no reason to doubt their origin unless it can be proven otherwise. Thanks again for showing them to us.

Gary

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Hi Gary,

I agree with your assumption that the unmarked daggers are in fact of German Manufacture. At least the parts.

I was thinking on the hangers. Just speculation, but many of the colors used on materials in the 30's and 40's were natural colors. These hangers backs actually remind me of burgundy color, which is close to brown, and there could be a fading over time of the original color? A bit of a stretch.

Thank you

Jim

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Hi>>>>
some pictures of my (Bulgarian Army)

IMG_1166.JPG (22.53 KB, 295 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
1

R.JPG (92.57 KB, 300 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
2

F.JPG (29.43 KB, 273 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
3

IMG_1163.JPG (20.4 KB, 267 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
You have some great daggers. Thank you for joining in.

Gary. The hanger he shows is one of those i have. Unfortunately, looking at his, mine has been slightly modified on the bottom. I will be taking photos this afternoon and will get one of the hanger. I will also try and find my second one.

Jim

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
The frog snap on the dagger has a manufacturer's name written <<stocko>> any ideas ? do you guys have similar writing ???

Picture_43.jpg (55.29 KB, 253 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
1

Picture_42.jpg (56.62 KB, 249 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
H
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 164
Likes: 1
Alexsandr,

It's great to have you join in the discussion and thank you for sharing pics of your beautiful dagger with us. That's a great close up shot of that snap. I'm going to copy that pic and keep it as reference material. Smile Can you tell us if there's a makers mark on your dagger?

Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of those hangers.


Everyone, the more Army daggers that I see, the more I'm convinced that these daggers were produced only by the German firm Robert Klaas regardless if they are maker marked or not. The grip material and color, scabbard and cross guard details, etc., all show the same high quality. As we discuss and show other Bulgarian daggers, I think the pics will show the large variation in quality based on the origin or manufacture. One thing that stands out in my collection is grip material. Bulgarian manufactured grip material is much different than German. The material is much more fragile and often times shows manufacturing flaws. Sometimes, the color doesn't seem to have been "mixed" thoroughly. The shape of the handles are somewhat inconsistent, etc. I looking forward to further discussion on this and hearing everyones opinion.

Gary

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Hayabusa2
Thanks ! my dagger has no maker marks on it i mean the blade: only the snap >>>>

Pesho - please check the snap of your dagger's frog> if it has anything ???


ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
First, let me say I agree with Gary's assumption 100% as to all dagger parts for Bulgarian army daggers came from solingen. I suspect some were contract made with or without maker mark, and others were parts sent to jewelers, uniform suppliers, etc as in France and other civilized countries.

Here are photos of both my hangers. I will tell you I am not sure what to think of the black one, but i did buy it out of Bulgaria.

But, first the brown one.

The markings on the snap is a "CK" at the top, a "O" at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, and possibly something at 6 o'clock that has rusted. The designs on the male snap are all plants. no numbers or letters. Also, note the bottom seems to have been modified.

Note the color of the top of the snap

BrnHangpost1.jpg (17.45 KB, 228 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
back

brnhangbackpost.jpg (12.24 KB, 223 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,919
Likes: 3
Here is the snap

brnhangpost3.jpg (55.36 KB, 218 downloads)
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,276,861 SS Bayonets
1,774,833 Teno Insignia Set
1,142,440 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Winterschlacht Im Osten 1941-42
by Cameron - 06/13/2024 06:06 PM
Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1.Klasse mit Schwertern
by Cameron - 06/12/2024 06:12 PM
German Naval sword - M1715?
by Chiska - 06/12/2024 02:02 PM
NSRL Flag good or bad
by Cameron - 06/12/2024 06:33 AM
Latest New Posts
Winterschlacht Im Osten 1941-42
by Cameron - 06/13/2024 06:06 PM
Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1.Klasse mit Schwertern
by Cameron - 06/13/2024 04:59 AM
Dagger SA Röhm SMF
by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann) - 06/12/2024 02:12 PM
German Naval sword - M1715?
by Chiska - 06/12/2024 02:02 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,675
Posts329,358
Members7,556
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (Stephen, Fitzer, Cameron, Skyline Drive, ado, Nietzsche, Dave, C. Wetzel-20609), 123 guests, and 198 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5