UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Klaas "U 9" Navy Dagger

Klaas U 9 Naval Dagger

A few things I have learned from mine�please add to the list I really want to know

1. The actual blade etch remains the essentially the same. Other than a few little rough edges and this or that line being a little thicker or thinner or a few more or less water inlet ports as caused by the etchng process, If �you have seen one you have seen them all�. I am personally aware of seven U 9�s being sold in the last five years and they were all identical in the etch. One of the seven did have a hammered scabbard.
2. The Robert Klaas stamp may be on either side of the blade. The stamp may be centered or slightly toward the blade body. All of the stamps I have seen are the same.
3. Two different blade blanks were used. When looking at the side of the ricasso one is square and the other tapers into the body of the blade. The tapered ricasso blade is � inch longer than the boxed ricasso one. The fullers of the tapered ricasso model extend farther into the etch double floral pattern.
4. The etched blade is nickel plated, with darkened frosting as the background to the design.
5. The U 9 on the reverse. This U Boat is not an actual artist copy of the original U9 either World War One or Two but more or less a composite of the two in my view. I think a submariner will look at the boat and say it is a II B from the 30�s. There was a time I thought maybe this design was ordered by Luth to celebrate his Knights Cross but I think the celebration of the Otto Weddigen boat makes more sense. Klaas is no help. They say all of their records were destroyed during WW II, which is the stock answer. We hope to conduct some more research with this firm, but with a German national this time. Back to the etch. The U9 was authorized to have the Iron Cross on the conning tower but it is missing from this design. Of course during war time both the Iron Cross and bow markings were not used. I do not think the design on the conning tower is a 9. I believe it is a life preserver with a running light below. The bow marking U 9 is of course crystal clear. The etch on the obverse. The battle ship is well done look for the 3 gun turret and the fluttering flags. The fouled anchor is typical.
6. The grip is celluloid over wood in all I have seen with a twisted brass wire wrap. The wire ends are not pegged into the side of the grip but extend below the crossguard and pommel.
7. The crossguard and pommel. Everyone says they are generic and I agree. I have seen a couple different eagles, the rounded head parrot beaked Krebs type and the square jawed Weyersberg, I am really not great on different heads as I have really never cared that much. The crossguard has the large central panel with fouled anchor and the guard ends are the rounded end type. The push button is always notched.
8. The scabbard. Some variation in length up to � inch.. Scabbard reminds me of some Horsters. The scabbard throat is affixed with two large dome head scabbard screws. The scabbard liners may be either metal army type or standard wooden navy liners. Blades with the metal liners don�t hold up very well. I think the metal liners were introduced first and then Klaas switched to wooden like most other firms. The oak leaf and acorn suspension bands are mounted with the leaves facing toward or away from the eye. The bands facing away from the eye are scalloped on the edge in the shape of the leaf while the ones facing the ring are more squared on the edge. Neither eyelets have center sleeves.

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

The above pic, the top U 9 was in a scabbard with metal runners. I picked it up in Germany.
It had hangers and knot. The hangers were the gilded aluminum type and the knot which seemed flattened to the crossguard was an army.

closer

Vic, In my estimation it looks like a Type IIB with the first post WW I German U-Boat flotilla of this class being comprised of the U.7-U.12 based at Kiel under Captain D�nitz. U.1-U.6 were training boats.

There were only 57 U-Boats operational at the start of the war. And appropriately enough U.9 was part of the Weddigen Flotilla comprising the U.9,U.13, U.15, U.17, U.19, U.21 and the U.23. I hope that this helps. Best Regards, FP

Vic, thank you very much for showing these well conditioned and very rare daggers. I really wonder (is the forum really down so far) that there is not more interest in them. They for sure are daggers you do not see at each show (at last the original ones as there are already copies out there).
May I ask, do you own both daggers? You have mentioned that you think the eagle is generic but I think to see two obviously different eagles (pics 3, 4), am I right? The crossguard (pic 6,7) seems to be typical EICKHORN which also would conform to the brown felt washer.
Which one in the pics is the one with the steel spring (liner), the one in pic 1, the one with the red or the brown washer? Do both of your daggers have the mm? If yes on oposite sides I think to see? Could you please show pics side by side obverse and reverse so we perhaps can see the minute differences?
Wonderful interesting daggers,
Thank you in advance,

Wotan, thanks for your interest. These U 9 are pretty rare. If less than 100 were made as TW thinks there are not many around.
Pic 1 has wooden scabbard liners. Pic 13 the one with the green buffer has metal liners. Generic may not be the best choice of words regarding parts, it seems Klaas picked what ever was available on the market. These 3 daggers are all maker marked. Two have the boxed ricasso and one has the tapered. The maker mark stamp is located on the obverse of the 2 boxed type ricasso and the tapered ricasso is marked on the reverse. Wotan your question about interest, extends to most navy items. I was talking with a very close friend of the late Hermann Maurer ( who was my tutor on navy and Auto/Aero daggers) this week and he was telling me about the navy manuscript he and Hermann had put together ready to publish in the late 70's. All of the navy daggers from 1848 to 1945 hundred of pages. I am told they could not find a publisher that would take the project. I discussed this with Hermann Maurer in the late 80's but he was so frustrated with things he never pursued publishing again. I have been told that has been some feeling among collectors over the years that navy daggers are not "Nazi" enough. I have no idea if such feelings ever existed or do today. Navy daggers 1848-1945 have always been my favorite.

Vic,

Many thanks for your very informative posts.

We really appreciate the time and effort you put into this.

Best regards,
Dave

Dave:

Thanks, it is somewhat selfish, I am always seeking new information about navy daggers, there is so much to learn.

Vic

Vic always a pleasure sir to see your stuff.
I love that U9 dagger. Klaas also had an unetched plain variant Navy.
One is owned by an esteemed forum member who has yet to yield to my pleads... :>
Thanks for the peek!

1

2q

Well done- enjoyed reading this. You don�t see metal runners in navy�s often but I will say that Pack did use them.

Vicdiehl,

Just wanted to thank you for those wonderful close-ups and information on the Klaas Navy pieces. Ya just gott'a love the etch work.
Great on original dress bayonets too!!

I Love This Stuff,
Von Ryan

Post war navy U-boat blade.

Now ya see, ain't those etched beautiful!!!!
I always enjoy looking at great etches like the original pre-45 pieces above. Any idea about the worth of these examples.

I Love This Stuff,

Von Ryan

Missed this post first time round, very interesting and highly informative, thanks for taking the time to put this together. I have one of these daggers at home, from memory it matches up well with the first piece you posted, superb daggers - you are lucky to have picked up two !

Jonathan

I just noticed this thread, very informative and stunning daggers.
I didn't know that these Klaas "U9" were so rare and having such a pair in your collection.........AWESOME.
Thanks for showing.

Gentlemen:

Has this blade ever been reproduced?

Von Ryan

To date, I have not seen this blade reproduced in total. I have seen, like many of you blades of both plain steel and false damascus with U-Boats as part of the design.

Hi Folks, Those are some GREAT U-9's!! Paul Hogle mentioned there is a standard etch KLAAS Navy "Owned by a forum member that has not submitted to his Pleads" Well.. that me. It is in NO WHERE near the condition of the U-9's but it is what it is. I was so concerned about it that I sent it to Tom Wittman who bless it as original (and offered to buy it) see the thread from about a year or so back.


http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/...380002382#1380002382


For those interested here are a few shots of an "odd bird" no pun intended.. OK I did intend it. HA HA!!

Cheers Chris

next

next one

almost last one

last

Chris:
Fantastic! Thanks for posting. I would really like to see some good high resolution shots of the entire blade. Looks like the Klaas box ricasso type blade stamping. Really cool!
Vic

Wow

This is still one that im missing

After receiving my U-9 (from the Bob Waitts collection) I posted it in the Community Center forum. I'd like to post a picture of the blade and example here, however a few more pictures can be seen in the CC forum.

I Love This Stuff
Von Ryan

The U-9 Sub.

My German co-author is working very hard to get into the Klaas records and see what we can find out about all of the Klaas pieces, especially the very elusive U9. We will keep you up to date as data emerges, if ever. They have at least acknowledged that some of their production records remain, which is different than the responses I go in the 80's.

I missed this one the first time around also. Great looking pieces. Its a real shame that one of these has been extensively cleaned. I found it especially interesting about the steel scabbard -steel spring one. I have only seen late pot metal hilted Eickhorns with this feature. I wonder if the scabbards were bought from them.

Vic--Are you hinting there will be a new Navy edged weapon book??

Gee, Houston, cleaned never seemed to be an issue with you before. You've always complimented on the beautiful condition of my etched bayonets....

Wayne

A cleaned etched bayonet is a beautiful sight to behold IMO but a Navy dagger with very clean brass-I just don't like them that way-I would rather see them looking a bit dirty and even stained. But -Hey-It's your dagger. Looking forward to seeing all those gleaming bayonets at the SOS.

Houston, I can assure you there will not be another navy book. I will add there is a lot of information to be understood. Hermann and I have a number of projects lined up in Germany after we finish the Auto/Aero/FMK nine issue series in Militaria International. We do have a navy project in mind but down the road. We do appreciate the great support we have gotten on the initial Auto Corps Dagger series. We were thinking it was so technical and so deep in history that no one would read it--we were suprised. It is our intention that this series becomes the standard reference on these historical pieces.

Speaking of navy dagger color, there are a lot of variations through the patterns. I prefer some patina, but never liked them so aged the brass was nearly black. I am not going to parade out a bunch of daggers that I like but here is a near 100% lacquer Alcoso that I always thought had a nice tone.

That's a beauty Vic--but here is a very dark one. I have to agree I would prefer them to be bright but this one has IMO great appeal too--and I would never think of cleaning it.

I certainly agree, I like this fine piece exactly as it is. Houston, you have some of the nicest stuff. It is alway great to see.

I also missed this one...

Although I am not a navy-person I was offered a "U-9" KM, but the blade on this is not maker-marked.

Has anyone else seen any of these without any maker?

Cheers,

No-I never have nor have I ever heard of one. A complete, thorough, hands on examination would be necessary for authentication. The best way would be to have an original also in hand to compare.

Houston,

You can't have it BOTH ways. Either an example is cleaned and looks in wonderfully eye pleasing condition and becomes a highlight of a collection (for a while) or it isn't and looks dull and aged. You can't prefer a "bright" example WITHOUT removing about 70 years of handling "gunk", smoke, dirt and discoloration over discoloration.

I Love This Stuff
Von Ryan

Vic

Here a few shots of my U-9 for your reference -

maker stamp

sub shot

full length shot

a final one for now -

Always good to see more U9 pics. Are the scabbard liners wooden or metal? How about adding a closeup of the eagle front and crossguard?

Years ago I was considering doing a book on Klaas products. IF you pay attention and look at the different daggers and bayonets produced by Klaas, they are all somewhat different from the other dagger manufacturers. Even the bayonet hilts differ from the standard M98 dress bayonets.
I have always felt that there was enough information, but not the amount of interest to sell a book just on Klaas.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

That's Nice JONATHAN. Thanks for sharing.

Ron, That's too bad. Klaas is probably the most interesting maker in the 3rd reich. It seem that they went out of their way to produce a product that was a bit different from the rest
of the manufacturers.
-wagner-

quote:

Nice JONATHAN

PVON

Vic

Don't have the dagger to hand apologies, here are a couple of extra shots -

crossguards -

Jonathan---continued good collecting to you!
You have nice stuff!

Thanks Vic, it's good to share

Jonathan