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#68162 12/12/2008 03:47 AM
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I picked this up from the daughter of a US veteran, that has sense enough to save what normally would have been discarded over time.

It is from the San Francisco area and tells how Japanese should gather and what belongings to bring into the internment camps.



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#68163 12/12/2008 05:44 AM
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Now that is a real piece of history. I sure would like to be able to read what it says. I don't think there are too many of those around..at least originals!

Nice interesting document.

Mark Cool

#68164 12/13/2008 02:46 AM
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I agree. True history. Congrats.

#68165 12/13/2008 03:36 AM
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Mark,
here ya go! It looks like the one Jerry shows is signed by Dewitt also. Maybe he can confirm. I think it is the same.
Bret Van Sant

http://www.sfmuseum.net/hist9/evacorder.html

#68166 12/13/2008 04:05 AM
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Wow! That was great. It sure is nice to see something like this to learn from. Real historical stuff I think.

Many Thanks,

Mark Cool

#68167 03/28/2009 12:12 AM
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I have one of those from Seattle. There are quite a few out there and not as valuable as you might think. Lot of fakes out there described as "never posted" and found sitting in a box somewhere. If it looks brand new and no tack holes in the corners than beware.

Those of us with more than a passing knowledge of the Japanese evacuation from the West Coast Combat Zones understand the decision wasn't as insideous as it's being portrayed today. There was plenty of evidence of fifth column activity and the security threat was real.

#68168 03/28/2009 02:02 PM
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Back in the late 60's I dated a young lady whose parents were interred. When they spoke of the situation they said their family lost all kinds of property and belongings. Being that they were both still in their teens at the time, I'm not sure how much of what they said is factual. Families can pass on BS storries generation to generation.
Later in college I was told that the reason for internment was solely real estate fron the Japanese-Americans. Considering the politics of the time, this also may not be correct.
20 years later, colleges in NJ were teaching that the Japanese-Americans did not lose anything. Again the political winds of the time might have had something to do with that view.
Are there any forum members who have factual knowledge of the cause & effect of this internment?

#68169 03/28/2009 02:08 PM
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I grew up in a farm community on the west coast. Prior to WWII there were probably a minimum of 8 Japanese families that ownde considerable farm land. All this land was confiscated and sold for taxes to other local (non Japanese) farmers. After the war, several of the families came back and ended up working on the same farms they once owned.

And yes, I know this for a fact. I know both sides of the argument. Those who owned the land and those who bought the land.

Clearly, I do not believe the internment was over taking peoples property, that was just an unintended side affect.

Jim

#68170 04/01/2009 11:26 PM
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Several years ago the Smithsonian had a neat display on the Japanese internment camps in the US.


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#68171 04/02/2009 12:56 AM
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WILLIAM RANDOLPH HEARST AND HIS STRING OF NEWSPAPERS WERE KNOWN INCITERS OF THE ANTI-JAPANESE AMERICAN SENTIMENT. THE ACTIONS OF OUR GOVERNMENT TO INTER THESE PEOPLE, MANY OF WHOM WERE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY, LED TO PROFITERING BY MANY. AT THE END OF THE WAR, THE MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE WENT BACK AND STARTED THEIR LIVES ALL OVER FROM SCRATCH. THE CUSTOMS OF THEIR CULTURE KEPT THEM FROM PROTESTING THEIR TREATMENT FOR MANY YEARS. THEY JUST BEGAN LIVE AGAIN, NEVER COMPLAINED AND BASICALLY BECAME ONCE AGAIN PRODUCTIVE, SUCCESSFUL MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY. AFTER THE INTERNMENT, SOME DECIDED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY THAT MISTREATED THEM AND MOVED TO JAPAN. I HAE HAD MANY FRIENDS IN THE JAPANESE AMERICAN COMMUNITY FOR THE PAST THIRTY FIVE YEARS. THERE WERE A FEW WHO NEVER FORGAVE WHAT THIS COUNTRY DID TO THEM. ONE GENTLEMAN,AN EDUCATED PERSON WHO BECAME A DOCTOR, ONCE TOLD MY WIFE, WHO IS JAPANESE, THAT YOU CAN NEVER TRUST CAUCASIANS. HE EVEN INCLUDED ME IN THAT STATEMENT!!!!
I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF ACTIVE FIFTH COLUMN GROUPS IN THE USA. I THINK THIS IS PROPOGANDA PUT FORTH BY INDIVIDUALS WHO WISH TO AVOID ANY NATIONAL SHAME FOR WHAT WE DID 67 YEARS AGO.


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#68172 04/03/2009 02:56 AM
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1. Much of the concern regarding ethnic Japanese located in the West Coast Combat Zones stemmed from known fifth column activity during the Pearl Harbor attack by Japanese locals there. Local Japanese support for the war in China (support that made a 180 degree turn after Pearl Harbor) was another reason.

2. A federal Alien Custodian of Property was put into place to ensure alien property was protected. This was a top priority before the evacuation even occured.

3. A large percentage of white Americans in the public and private sector opposed evacuation because the Japanese were superior at intensive truck farming and these crops would be needed for the war effort. In the private sector much opposition came from those in the agriculture business, including produce shippers, packing houses, fertilizer companies and white Americans who had leased farmland to the Japanese. To state all white Americans were running around hysterically hurling accusations of racism is just not true. Some were, but they were in no position to make the decision to evacuate.

4. Another agriculture related problem, especially in California is that the predominately Filipino and Mexican field workers refused to work for Japanese farmers and nobody was willing to work their crops.

5. At no point was the government interested in "locking up" the evacuated Japanese. From the beginning if the evacuation should occur the plan was to relocate them to areas in the interior with suitable farmland where the majority being in agriculture could continue producing for the war effort. From the begining religious, social service and even the JACL demanded that if the evacuation should occur the Japanese shouldn't just be "kicked out" of the combat zones.

The government should be responsible for feeding, housing, providing employment and medical care for the evacuated people - and assiting them in re-establishing themselves in the interior - in as humane an environment as could be provided. That is just what the government did with the Relocation Centers.

6. Ultimately the decision to evacuate was a military decision with thoughtful advice provided from all sides regarding the handling of all Alien Enemies.

#68173 04/03/2009 03:06 AM
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Documented Evidence:

Office of Naval Intelligence memorandum for the Chief of Naval Operations, Feb 12, 1941,"Japanese Espionage Organization in the United States," which suggests that the information therein be brought to the attention of the President and stating that the Japanese government had decided to strengthen its intelligence network by, among other moves to employ "Nisei Japanese and Japanese resident nationals" using extreme caution in doing so.

Military Intelligence Div. 336.8, Honolulu, 14 October 1941. "Japanese Ex-Service Men's Organization" which reports on two Japanese ex-military member groups active in the U.S. with 7200 members, stating in part: "...these two organizations have pledged to do sabotage (railroads and harbors)in the states mentioned (California, Washington, Oregon, and Utah) in time of emergency. Similar organizations are in Hawaii. Sixty-nine local units of these two organizations are said to be carrying on activities."

U.S.Army MID Information Bulletin No.6 of Jan.21, 1942,titled "Japanese Espionage," forwarded to Ass't SecWar John J. McCloy by Brig. General Mark J. Clark,then Deputy Chief of Staff, U.S.Army, which, among its conclusions states: "Their espionage net containing Japanese aliens, first and second generation Japanese and other nationals is now thoroughly organized and working underground."

Not to mention the MAGIC intercepts, the Nihau incident and the thousands of nisei at Tule Lake marching around demanding to be sent back to Japan to fight for Emporer Showa....

This is a militaria site and not a history site so I doubt the moderators would like a full fledged debate on this controversial subject. But I know that public opinion on this subject is based more on a passive understanding from over 20 years of media coverage with a slanted point of view. For those who wish to know, there is a lot more to the story than "hysterical racism and lack of political will".

#68174 04/03/2009 03:27 AM
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I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY INTERRED JAPANESE YOU HAVE KNOWN, BUT I HAVE KNOWN MANY. THEY WERE NOT IN A BOY SCOUT CAMP. OUR NATURAL BORN CITIZENS WERE FORCED TO ENDURE GREAT HARDSHIP. THE LIVING CONDITION WERE BARELY HABITABLE FRANKLY, IF MY GOVERNMENT LOCKED ME UP DUE TO MY RACE, THE GOVERNMENT UNDER WHICH I WAS BORN AND EDUCATED, I MIGHT BE TICKED OFF ENOUGH TO WANT OUT UNDER ANY REASON AND FIGHT AGAINST THE INTOLERANCE I WAS FACING. THERE IS A NATURAL SADISM THAT GROWS WITHIN GUARDS AGAINST THOSE THEY GUARD. THE ULTIMATE POWER OF LIFE OR DEATH OVER AN INDIVIDUAL WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU CAN BASICALLY DO WHAT YOU WANT AND NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTALBLE. IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THESE TYPES OF ABUSE OCCURED ON A REGULAR BASIS, THEN YOU ARE EITHER NAIVE OR DON'T CARE.
THERE ARE MANY RECORDED INSTANCES OF SPIES AND TRAITORS IN THE GERMAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY. THE GERMAN AMERICANS WERE NOT IMPRISONED AS A GROUP BECAUSE OF THEIR HERITAGE. I FIND YOUR ARGUEMENTS UNCONVINCING AND PERIOD QUOTED SOURCES UNRELIABLE AT THE LEAST.
HOW MANY INNOCENT AMERICAN CITIZENS LOST EVERYTHING? SOME EVEN DIED UNDER THE LESS THAN HUMANE CONDITIONS THAT THEY FACED. THEIR PROPERTY, THEIR SAVINGS, THEIR INTEGRITY. I AM SORRY BUT THIS WAS A RACIST ACT BY A POPULATION INFLAMED BY HEARST'S YELLOW JOURNALISM. YES, THAT IS WHERE THE TERM YELLOW JOURNALISM CAME FROM. THE HEARST PAPERS INTENSE PREJUDICE TOWARDS ASIAN AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY THE JAPANESE SINCE THE 1920'S.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT DID TO THESE PEOPLE. I FIND ANYONE WHO CAN JUSTIFY THESES ACTS IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO ALSO SMACKS OF RACISM.


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#68175 04/03/2009 04:22 AM
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German Americans on the east coast and throughout the country were arrested, interned, and in some cases deported. Almost 11,000 German Americans were interned in the U.S. during World War II. Many German Americans sat, worked, played and went to school in the same camps as their Japanese American counterparts.

Furthermore even before the first ethnic Japanese was interned, 600,000 Italian Americans and 300,000 German Americans were deprived of their civil liberties when they (all persons, male and female, age 14 and older) were required to register as "Alien Enemies." This registration entailed photographing, fingerprinting and the issuance of identification cards which the Alien Enemies had to have on their possession at all times. In addition they were forbidden: to fly; to leave their neighborhoods; to possess cameras, short-wave radio receivers, and firearms. Finally, these persons were required to report any change of employment or address to the Department of Justice.

That said, The Tolan committee looked very closely at the need to evacuate Germans and Italians from the West Coast combat zones, also.

It was learned that the vast majority of the German enemy aliens were Jewish Germans who had escaped Hitler's oppression starting in the early 1930's. The Italians were by and large illiterate farmers who had never gotten around to applying for citizenship.

After careful thought and discussion it was decided these people were not a threat to the West Coast combat zones to the extent the ethnic Japanese were a threat.

To argue there must be some kind of proportionality between Germans, Italians and Japanese because they happen to be enemy aliens without acknowledging the extent of the security threat from ethnic Germans and Italians compared to ethnic Japanese didn't make sense to American's political and military leaders who were responsible for the security of the country in a time of total war when America was losing the war.

Secondly, Those that had losses could have filed claims under he 1948 Evacation Claims Act which was amended several times throughout the 1950s. Claims up to $100,000 were eligible for hearings and when all was concluded there were only 15 appeals to the settlements offered by the government out of more than 26,000 claims filed. How much fairer could that have been?

Did other Americans who lost everything as a result of the war get such a deal?

Henry Morgenthau, secretary of the treasury, reacted promptly to Congressman Tolan's appeal for action to protect evacuee property...The Federal Reserve Bank through its branches was enjoined to do all in its power 'to assist evacuees with the problem of liquidation...and protecting them against those seeking to take unfair advantage...to put evacuees in a position to obtain buyers, lessees, and other users of their property on fair terms...' (and) where the evacuee was 'unable to select his own agent...the Federal Reserve will be prepared to act as agent for the evacuee under a power of attorney.

As early as May of 1942, the Federal Reserve had established an "Evacuee Property Department" with 184 employees in five branch offices to assist evacuees with property problems and take the necessary steps to protect the evacuee from unjust losses.

Third, Approximately two-thirds of the ADULTS among those evacuated were Japanese nationals--enemy aliens. The vast majority of evacuated Japanese-Americans (U.S. citizens) were children at the time. Their average age was only 15 years. In addition, over 90% of Japanese-Americans over age 17 were also citizens of Japan (dual citizens)under Japanese law. Thousands had been educated in Japan. Some having returned to the U.S. holding reserve rank in the Japanese armed forces.

According to the Japanese Consulate, after Japan signed the New Nationality Law in 1924, two-thirds of American born Nisei were registered with Japanese Consulates so as to acquire dual American/Japanese citizenship, including about 50,000 Kibei Shimin.

Fourth, during the war, more than 33,000 evacuees voluntarily left the relocation centers to accept outside employment. An additional 4,300 left to attend colleges.

It should be noted that the relocation centers had many amenities. Accredited schools, their own newspapers, stores, churches, hospitals, all sorts of sports and recreational facilities.

They also had the highest percapita wartime birth rates for any U.S.community. How could that be if the standard issue military housing built for them was "barely habitable"?

Lastly, it was the Japanese fighting the racial holy war, not the Americans. Rather than hurling accusations of racism, why not provide your own historical facts as I have done?

#68176 04/03/2009 05:21 AM
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That's actually not where the term "yellow journalism" originated. Right guy, wrong war.

It originated around the Spanish-American War. Hearst hired a cartoonist away from Pulitzer. The "yellow kid" was a character in his comics. Hearst and Pulitzer's ongoing and increased sensationalism became known as yellow journalism.

Tyrel

#68177 04/04/2009 02:19 AM
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ROBERT S-
YOUR TOTAL LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF JAPANESE CULTURE IS EVIDENT IN YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING WHY JAPANESE AMERICANS TOOK CERTAIN ACTIONS PRIOR TO THE WAR WITH REGARDS TO THEIR ANCESTORAL HOMELAND. YOU WISH TO BEND FACTS TO MEET WHATEVER YOUR AGENDA YOU HAVE. THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL EVER CONVINCE ME NOT I YOU. NEITHER YOU OR I HAD TO WALK IN THE SHOES OF CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO WERE IMPRISONED BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. IT IS EVIDENT HAVE NEVER HAD MUCH OR ANY CONTACT WITH THOSE WHO WERE MADE TO ENDURE THE HARDSHIPS FORCED UPON THEM. BEING ALLOWED OUT OF IMPRISONMENT AFTER 1-1/2 YEARS OF UNJUSTIFIED IMPRISONMENT TO WORK IN JOBS IN STRANGE CITIES FAR FROM THEIR HOME TOWNS IS NO GREAT DEAL. STAY IMPRISONED OR GET SENT FAR FROM HOME. WHICH WOULD YOU CHOOSE? IT IS SAD AFTER ALL THE TIME THAT HAS PASSED THAT SUCH ATTITUDES OF INTOLERANCE STILL PERSIST. I SEE NO POSITIVE REASON TO MAKE ANY FURTHER COMMENT ON THIS THREAD.


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#68178 04/04/2009 03:40 AM
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At least I'm civil, Bob. I'm not out to convince anyone least of all the unconvinceable regardless of the evidence that stares them in the face. Thanks for not commenting further on this thread.

Others who might find this history to be of interest can start by reading declassified primary historical documents here.

http://www.internmentarchives.com/

#68179 04/04/2009 02:50 PM
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Ok, well I guess this is still a touchy subject, and while both views presented are still civil I think it best that I close this topic.


JERRY
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