#68102
01/21/2007 10:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,316
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OP
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Hello all, I bought this at the last MAX for $100. Is that a fair price??? My other questions are: 1) What do all of the stamps on the pommel mean? 2) This is a K98.... Right??? 3) The "coppel" makers mark, is that the same company as Alcoso??? I REALLY love this bayo. The weight, construction and look of it are just COOL!!! Especially when you consider the price of "dress daggers" these days... Anyway, here it is:
b1.jpg (95.16 KB, 183 downloads)
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#68103
01/21/2007 10:17 PM
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PS- The numbers ARE matching:
b2.jpg (94.09 KB, 181 downloads)
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#68104
01/21/2007 10:17 PM
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What is this number and the letter "F"???? The nuymber matches the scabbard, is it a production number??? What does "F" stand for???
b3.jpg (74.72 KB, 175 downloads)
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#68105
01/21/2007 10:19 PM
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"coppel" as in "Alexander Coppel Solingen" AKA: Alcoso????
b4.jpg (69.56 KB, 171 downloads)
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#68106
01/21/2007 10:21 PM
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Posts: 3,316
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Stamps???
b5.jpg (56.97 KB, 174 downloads)
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#68107
01/21/2007 10:22 PM
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Another stamp: sorry, out of focus:
b6.jpg (62.75 KB, 173 downloads)
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#68108
01/21/2007 10:22 PM
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Blade:
b7.jpg (87.39 KB, 167 downloads)
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#68109
01/21/2007 10:25 PM
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Frog markings?????????????????????????????????
b8.jpg (95.65 KB, 168 downloads)
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#68110
01/22/2007 12:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3 |
A hundred dollars is a fair price to pay for a matching bayonet. The Waffenampts on your pommel signify where the bayonet was made, although I don't know where WaA253 is. The letter underneath the serial number is to more or less tell you what stage of production your bayonet was made during that year which should be stamped on the spine of your bayonet. They would usually start each series with the letter a and for every thousand after that they move through the alphabet, sometimes using two of the same letters together.
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#68111
01/22/2007 12:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3 |
Also this pattern bayonet would be called a model 84/98. Which would go on the k98 rifle. Hope this helps.
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#68112
01/22/2007 12:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 265
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 265 |
Hi another amature, but the letter blocks are in ten thousand. D 5596= 55,596 of that year and that maker. I am not sure coppel for alcosa.
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#68113
01/22/2007 07:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Hello , nice bayonet, blade is slightly sharpened, what is the date on spine of blade? 39 or 40? WaA253 is correct proof. Alcoso and Coppel GmbH is same firm. best regards,Andy
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#68114
01/22/2007 11:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292 |
i would say that 100$ is very fair for a matching sharpened k98 bajo, in my country (denmark) it is actually cheap, at least the sharpening is done correctly so it maintain its value all in all a fine piece, congrats. regards wiking
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#68115
01/22/2007 10:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21 |
In my country a sharpened common maker/date like Coppel even with frog, @ $100 is steep...
Imo you didn't get ripped off but you will play hell getting the $100 back out of it (imo of course)
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#68116
01/23/2007 01:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 265
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Joined: Oct 2005
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In my previous post my intention was to state that I am a amature not to critize the person before and to share some of the little information that I have. Sorry to offend, Ian.
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#68117
01/23/2007 02:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 147
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 147 |
Johnny, Yes it is a bayonet for the K98k rifle known by the "Hardcore" as an S84/98 III. The markings on the pommel are proof marks applied by a weapons office (Waffen Ampt) inspector. The proof marks indicate 2 different levels of quality acceptance achieved by this bayonet before leaving the factory. These numbers tended to move and change so they don't necessarily indicate a certain locality in all circumstances. Coppel was in Solingen so this is really a mute point. ALCOSO is a trade name of ALexander COppel & SOhn (Son). This is the same as GMC for General Motor Corp's Trucks in the U.S. The serial numbers on most of these bayonets (Ferlach of Austria had it's own number system) are in blocks of 9999 each being differentiated by by a letter suffix. As for the bayonet price, you did OK as it looks as you also got a good early frog. But remember that sharpening drags the price down by as much as 50% or more. Also remember (kidding here) that the time to ask if it "is a fair price" is BEFORE you buy! . Hope this helps! Jeff Bernish Owner: Tenmile Creek Antiques
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#68118
01/23/2007 02:08 AM
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Hey guys! Thanks EVERYONE for the input! Andy B.- The spine is marked "39" Ian- I took NO offense, I try not to take myself that seriously!
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#68119
01/23/2007 07:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Thanks for details, nice bayo. best regards,Andy
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#68120
01/23/2007 04:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 147
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 147 |
A couple of clarifications on my last post. 1.)The serial blocks of 9999 ARE differentiated by letter suffixes, but as most of us know the first 9999 have no suffix. 2.)Also, there have been reports of 5 digit i.e. 10,000 marked bayonets. I believe, however that these are either anomolies or outright fakes. Why would a manufacturer add another digit 10,000 and stop there? Why not go to 10,001 (and so on) and eliminate the necessity for many letter suffixes. It just doesn't make sense. I have heard MANY compelling arguments for the 10,000 myth but like a 24 carat gold colander, they are very impressive but they still don't hold water! 3.)Finally, when I said that ...."is a mute point" it should have read "moot point". Vickie was in the other room tempting me with a glass of fine Bordeaux and I was hurrying to get the Post done! Oh yes, it should have read "General Motors" also. Really! I am semi-literate! My best to all!---Jeff Bernish
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#68121
01/23/2007 05:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
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�98K� has always worked for me unless you�re getting into other variants. And the Coppel, while it has been worked on, I think is a decent enough bayonet. And (IMO) is a much better acquisition than some of these postwar reworks and others that are currently in circulation.
The �Waffenamts�, which were called something else by the Germans, can be seen to change from time to time. But from my perspective they did have something to do with specific localities, and in some cases specific large scale factories. That�s because the commission numbers which were granted by the Heereswaffenamt were given to the individuals who were in charge of the various inspection teams. And WaA 63 was assigned to Mauser-Werke. And then he left to go Brno, Czechoslovakia which is why we see it on the bayonets and rifles from there. And his replacement took over at Mauser Werke using commission number (WaA) 655. Who was in turn replaced by WaA 135. Conversely, for Solingen bayonet makers one team covered the whole area.
Also as I seem to recall, the second pommel Waffenamt was believed to have been from the final inspection (and acceptance) of the bayonet. With the point being well taken that for Solingen based makers Waffenamts didn�t really have much of a special significance. And after some early markings they went to WaA 253. Then WaA 883, and lastly WaA 519. Each representing different inspection teams - although no doubt some personnel could have remained behind to work under the new inspection team head. FP
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#68122
01/23/2007 11:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Thanks Ian for the input on the numbering, as well as all the info on WaA and their meanings.
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