#63019
05/25/2008 03:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Hello gents In the last two weeks I have had the pleasure to read many of the informative post in this forum, and I have learned a lot Sites like this will be a good help for the next generation collectors, and here is my first contribution to the forum. First out are my pre war K98 bayonets. The Germans bring all of them to Norway during the WW2, and they all have matching numbers of course. Description start from left: · S/175K, serial number 3527 a · S/173G, serial number 18 · S/ 283 (1936), serial number 96 d · Diamant (1937) serial number 1941 c · Mundlos (1938), serial number 1381 s Questions and comments are welcome. I do more pictures if needed. Best regards from Fanejunker
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#63020
05/25/2008 03:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Grips of bakelite and wood.
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#63021
05/25/2008 03:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Naked steel in last picture
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#63022
05/25/2008 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199 |
Very nice pieces the one is probably S.238 i believe, the early Diamant is very scarse to seen. Congratulation.best regards,Andy The second with plastic grips is probably a war replacement.
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#63023
05/25/2008 07:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Hi Andy Thanks for fast reply. You are absolutely right; the S-code are of course 238. My mistake I do also think the G-coded bayonet is a war replacement. The plastic grips are made in a brighter colour, so it maybe done early in the war?
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#63024
05/25/2008 07:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Continuing the tread with a new line-up. These bandits was made in the early war years, and makers and year marking are: · F.W.Höller (1939), serial number 1750 c · Dürkopp (1939), serial number 6141 e · E.Pack & S (1939), serial number 8669 f · Berg & Co (1940), serial number 810 b · J. Sch (1940), serial number 6597 d · W.K.C (1940), serial number 8507 f
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#63025
05/25/2008 07:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
High polishing and dark Bakelite grips seems to be the period’s fashion
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#63026
05/26/2008 06:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199 |
Great collection of untouched pieces.best regards,Andy
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#63027
05/26/2008 08:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292 |
Very nice fahnenjunker and in a great condition too, i really love those early matching bayos
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#63028
05/26/2008 12:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Thanks for the fine words AndyB and Wiking Today I will show you the mid and late wars bayonets in my collection. Late war bayonets are difficult to find in my part of the world, but they do pop up from time to time. As all of the bayonet I have in my collection these have also matching numbers. Description start from left: · 41 cul, serial number 7869 c · 42 cof, serial number 4016 o · 42 asw, serial number 7248 t · 42 asw, serial number 4075 y. This bayonet has a very colourful blade. · 43 fnj, serial number 8927 n. Welded scabbard and inspection mark WaA310 on the spine. Is this normal? · 44 agv, serial number 8849 a. Welded scabbard on this one to.
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#63029
05/26/2008 12:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
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#63030
05/26/2008 12:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084 Likes: 96
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084 Likes: 96 |
What is a welded scabbard ?
Dave
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#63031
05/26/2008 01:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Welded scabbard
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#63033
05/27/2008 07:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Great collection you got there Wiking, your 44 dated makes me green Here is a picture of the welding on mine agv. The maker has taking the time to grind the welding. These scabbard are funny items, but does anyone now how many producers use them, and are they all made by Wallmeyer? I have another one and will show it in my next post. Best regards FJ
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#63034
05/27/2008 11:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Those are some very nice bayonets !!! While it always possible that there were other producers of welded scabbards, the only one known for sure is Wallmeyer (maker code “can”). With some effort seeming to have been expended in removing the markings, as seen below with most of the “can” being ground off this 1944 dated example by Hörster. FP
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#63035
05/28/2008 06:26 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199 |
Nice piece, looks like untouched, by 42asw in t range could be find both type of grips wood and plastic, the other 42asw with serial number in range y is typical with the red blueing color finish, the 43fnj is probably with additional WaA519 proof on blade, sometimes is located on spine, sometimes near maker or serial number stamp.best regards,Andy
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#63036
05/28/2008 04:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Thanks a lot for the fine input during the thread. You guys have told me several things I did not now of my bayonets. All honour to the helpful members of this forum Today I will show you my police bayonets and the so-called commercial one. Some of them have been in mine collection for years, but I do not now much about them. Description starts from left: · Logo with two scales and the letters ACS, serial number 6642. Very faint marking on the spine and it looks like a figure I been heard called starbust?? · Same logo as previous, but this one is placed up side down. No serial number. Very nice Police eagle stamp on spine. Unfortunally is the scabbard reblued on this one. Bubbas workshop is a dangerous place · Commercial bayonet with no marking at all. Not even the frog has any marking, and this is just the way I found it. Very strange wood used in the grip also, and I have never seen a similar bayonet before. · Commercial bayonet only marked W.K.C one the blade. This was one of the first bayonets I’ve got, and because of the cruel finish I named it “Ugly Ghost” · Logo with two scales and the letters AWS. This one has also full maker name Alcoso Solingen. Something has been grinded of the spine before assembling and blueing. . Maybe a police marking? The scabbard is the welded model.
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#63037
05/28/2008 04:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
All types of finishing on these one
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#63038
05/28/2008 05:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Fanejunker, Another group of very nice bayonets !!! You already have it figured out what is what: *An early “starburst” marked German Police bayonet. *A later high polish hot (dip) blued Police eagle marked example (While it would be nice to look at in person, I don’t think that it has been reblued. Some of these bayonets and scabbards have a very glossy appearance.) *The early rust blue example has been sometimes associated with a group like the German Railway. And may even on occasion have an internal Waffenamt marking which can help date it. *The WKC is what it is, and was probably for a paramilitary group like the police. *With the same being true for the late Coppel. There are those who consider all of these prewar and wartime commercials harder to find than the military issue types. And IMO there is some truth to that point of view. PS: I was never lucky enough to obtain a commercial from Norway myself. And did not really think of it in that context thinking it to be more of a military operation. I can see that I am going to have to re-calibrate my thinking which is a good thing, and thank you for enlightening me. Congratulations Again, and Thanks for Sharing. Best Regards, FP
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#63039
05/28/2008 05:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fanejunker: Great collection you got there Wiking, your 44 dated makes me green Quote Thanks yours not to bad either
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#63040
05/28/2008 08:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Frogprince say it: I do begin to figure out some of the Mauserbayonets history, but you guys give me more pieces to the puzzle. The hot (dip) blued police bayonet does not have a smooth surface on the scabbard, and therefore I believed it was reblued. Here is some more picture of it:
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#63041
05/28/2008 08:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
The bumps on the scabbard are more visible on this picture. The frog are marked "A.Fischer, Berlin 1939"
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#63042
05/28/2008 09:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Police Eagle stamp on spine
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#63043
05/28/2008 09:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Woops! Wrong picture. It is well over bedtime This is the marking on the bayonet.
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#63044
05/28/2008 11:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 491
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 491 |
quote: PS: I was never lucky enough to obtain a commercial from Norway myself. And did not really think of it in that context thinking it to be more of a military operation. I can see that I am going to have to re-calibrate my thinking which is a good thing, and thank you for enlightening me.
FJ, your EagleB scabbard with high polish finish looks totaly normal to me. 1940 and 1941 Coppels and Weyersbergs issued to commercial and ^police always have a very glossy finish. So... no bubba worked there good for you !
If it's '44 dated, I need it!
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#63045
05/29/2008 02:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
quote: 1940 and 1941 Coppels and Weyersbergs issued to commercial and police always have a very glossy finish.
Arnaud, While I’m in agreement that they all have high polish finishes. I might have a minor difference of opinion when it comes to “glossy” (depending on how “glossy” is defined). While the primary Coppel variants from the earlier ACS/Scales Police Eagle (w/lined frog stud scabbards) through the AWS/Scales marked blades generally share those characteristics. That is not true IMO for P. Weyersberg. With not only the dated types, but the later muzzle ring/Police Eagle types having what looks to me like more of a matte (cold rust) blue over a high polish finish versus a hot (dip) blue. Best Regards, FP
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#63046
05/29/2008 02:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
PS: My apologies for the quality of the images. With macro sometimes I get lucky, and sometimes not. And lighting for me is always a problem. In retrospect I think that especially one of Fanejunker's pictures does a much better job of showing the difference. It would probably be good to mention at this point that like hot (dip) bluing there are variables. And the number of applications of the chemicals affects not only the depth of color. But the degree of micro-etching that goes along with rust bluing and is seen in the finished product as a matte finish. FP
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#63047
05/29/2008 06:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199 |
Great items anyway, i have some doubts about the high polish, it could be that the nr.2 repolished was and reblued or some parts of bleuing was repaired? the nr.3 is for me not a early piece, i believe its a 42/43 period piece.best regards,Andy
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#63048
05/29/2008 03:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
Interesting thoughts on bayonet finish here Bayonets are good story-tellers, especially the German ones. I often see commercial bayonets in Norway, but why there are so many of them here I do not now. Very soon, I will be empty for German bayonets too show you To day I post and old “sailor”. What do you think of it?
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#63049
05/29/2008 03:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
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#63050
05/29/2008 03:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
The most interesting part
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#63051
05/29/2008 03:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
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#63052
05/29/2008 03:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,834
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,834 |
I think your "old sailor" is GREAT! That is one I've not been fortunate enough to acquire.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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#63053
05/29/2008 06:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Fanejunker, Before I forget. That IMO is one of the best Police Eagle blade stamps that I have seen in a long time. More often the dies have broken down and the stamps are not as distinct. Also I like your “old sailor” very much. That bayonet here would attract a lot of attention.
When I first got some bayonets from Norway I looked into the German TO for the area later in the war and got the sense of coastal defense units, maritime reconnaissance, and later a bulking up of forces that was the result of keeping the Germans guessing where the Allies would strike. Now it seems that I should have looked a little harder at German internal security forces as well.
From an old photo shoot with different bayonets in sunlight here I think is a better image showing some of the bluing types that can be found. All are of the polished types versus the rougher brush, improperly polished, or sandblasted variety. For better or worse, all of the scabbards were probably oiled in the image, which can diffuse the light that the camera sees (the bayonets/scabbards of the P. Weyersberg and Coppel in my earlier image were in fact oiled, and in retrospect don’t do a good job showing the surface finish). My focus here being on the rust blued scabbard to the right. Although it originally was probably to show the red/purple coloration. Best Regards, FP
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#63054
05/29/2008 06:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 292 |
beautifull ostsee.. i only have one nordsee bayo i hope someday to dig up a ostsee too very nice
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#63055
05/29/2008 07:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158
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OP
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 158 |
I am very glad you liked my bayos. Will post more from my collection soon. FP, I see the different in coloration on your scabbards. From now one I will look after variations in the blueing, and the hunt start tomorrow
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#63056
06/01/2008 09:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 886
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 886 |
great collection keep em coming...FP can keep things rolling with his super blades! :-)
BCN Founder
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#63057
06/14/2008 01:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,245
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,245 |
Great colllection Fanejunker. Here a orginal bayonet SG 42 for the German M 98 carbine. Germans made this knife for close combat knife and use on the rifle. tools inside the grip section. Very fine patent. The bayonet was made in very small numbers and sent out too troops in the Eastfront. Small Numbers made of this type SG 42. The SG 42 is ultra rare today & all-metal 3rd version is even more ultra rare than the other 2 models 1 & 2. COF marked blade and WaA marked 519 on blade below gripsection. Ltk marked tool ( ltk is robert Klaas) SG 42 is made in 3 variations. My type SG is model 2. sg42 bayonet of the 2nd type with the rocker arm type of locking device. Enjoy... The bayo on the way out of my collection for other German daggers. I need more of the SS Lh 600
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