UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum Hans Weissenbock SS tunic

This tunic along with various documents etc turned up in the early seventies,unfortunately it all got split up, I ended up with the tunic,Charles Barger had some documentation,as did Ulric Woodhams.Now I remember one of the documents Ulric had concerned Weissenbocks German Cross in Gold,and another I distinctly remember was a letter chastiseing him for marrying a woman with a tainted blood line.Next time I speak with Ulric I'll see if he can give me further details,which I will pass on to Fred.
As for the tunic,what can one say?I personally think its a very nice original Waffen SS junior officers service tunic, and far exceeds many of the tunics I've seen shown on this forum over the last few years.

Kind Regards Keith

Thanks Keith for posting this very interesting information. I sincerely hope you can come up with additional information soon.

The name in Fred's jacket is Hans Weissenbock.

The name that was researched to a DKiG winner is Ernst Weisenback.

Am I missing something here or did the officer that is attributed to Fred's jacket actually receive the German Cross?? Not looking that way to me as I would think it would be documented when Mark researched it.


Glenn

We have to wait and see..

Glenn, There is no evidence that he ever received the DKg....yet.I still think the tunic was doctored some.

It's hard for me to imagine that this or most SS tunics came totally untouched out of the war. That's why I am suscpious of so called untouched items you often see for sale on the internet.
But, the Weissenböck tunic is named and has original insignia... and the taylor of the tunic has it's own reputation. Despite not being untouched this tunic is one of my favorites.

I like it myself Fred and I have learned that its not the purity that gives us the enjoyment its the character and the historical essence.Ive had untouched minty ones that had no character and although perhaps valuable did not take my mind on that trip back through time when I looked at them.

Due to a communication failure Rob McDivitt did not receive my reply to continue the investigation regarding Hans Weissenböck. He expects to come up with information end of July or beginning of August. I keep you all posted.

Fred its a fine tunic you are right to be very proud, I look forward to McDivitts findings, please keep us informed.
cheers
Martin

Rob McDivitt can look all he wants, but he won`t find any confirmation that Weissenböck received a DKiG. I have access to the same records as McDivitt and a lot more and the only awards that the guy's personnel file confirms is that he received the KVK II, eastern front medal for the few months that he spent in a cavalry regiment and the Winkel chevron which is the only thing that matches between the tunic and the official record. His record has him serving as a staff officer up through at least mid-May 1944. It's extremely unlikely that this guy suddenly became such a hero.

John

The rank is correct as well John he was an untersturmfuhrer was he not? I think thet tunic as I said before was refurbished after the war as are many even the captured ones that ended up in collections early on.Collectors have a hard time not enhancing things.

As far as the German Cross in Gold is concerned I know of two instances where it was awarded but there is no record in the books on them. There was a Luftwaffe ace who is not in the GC book but there is a picture of him wearing the award - he was also a Knight's Cross winner. And there is a name etched on the back of a GCiG to another Luftwaffe Oberleutnant who's name is not listed in the book. You would have to look up the individual's personnel file to be sure.

Tim

Quantico - JohnPic and I have already said here that we both have a complete copy of Weissenbock's personnel file (Personalakte) and there was no record of him having received a DKiG or even an EK I or EK II or being posted to a combat unit after 1942. Since personnel files were often not updated after March or April 1945 a better authority for late war awards is the "diary" kept by the Heeres Personalamt that records submittals for these award recommendations and further action taken. I have asked a friend in Germany with access to a copy of that record book to check. The one exception is that approval to award the DKiG and Ehrenblattspange was delegated by the Heeres Personalamt on April 22, 1945 to commanders of Army Groups or separate armies. That authority was ended on May 12, 1945 according to the book in the DKiG by Horst Scheibert. Approval authority was never delegated to division or corps commanders.

As other people have surmised this is a nice original tunic that has been embellished with a DKiG and other questionable awards sometime after 1945.

John

Nice original tunic I think Fred. I would wait untill all the info is in from all archives etc. Then if it is fairly certain that this soldier did not receive the cross in gold then I think the cloth award should be removed even if it leaves a sign. If the tunic is unknown then you can always say maybe. Obviously it would have been better if it was a hard award. But to say that an augmentation makes no difference to a known situation is like saying that I upgraded my 1967 vet from 327HP to 427HP. A VERY big deal! For history's sake the award should either be left or removed depending on the research. Otherwise a travisty to those who won it in the true heat of battle. Since it is a true and real tunic I assume from all the evidence then you should be proud of the tunic as it was originally found. I would be. Just a point of view. David

I am still waiting for the answers. I hope Keith can come up with more as he has seen documents regarding Hans Weissenböck.

Whatever the outcome, I leave the insignia on the tunic. They have been there for over 30 years. Despite everything, I love this named tunic.

I forgot to mention. I would not be heartbroken if the research turns out Hans Weissenböck never received any decorations. I am not like that at all! For me the history of the man who once wore this tunic is more important.
And, most tunics seen today have been altered anyway... some with bad insignia and some from Army tunics.
This one is an orginal SS one, named and from reputable maker.

I agree Fred the history is the most important.A lot of attibuted items were only to Low level officers and Party members. Without them the movement would have never taken hold. Great Tunic and thanks for sharing.

Its a lovely tunic indeed and one I'd be proud to own! We all know how difficult and ellusive real SS officers tunics are.

***

Hi just as an aside to some posts previous if you have a tunic with award loops and you place Iron crosses etc.....not knowing with absolute certainty what loops were for what medal does this is anyway desecrate the tunic if it is mentioned that they were added later and were not originally on the tunic? Also if the tunic is not named or researchable does the addition of the combat awards in anyway adversly affect the value? cheers, Ryan

I dont think pinning a badge through an already placed loop matters its just display. However sewing tank destruction strips, DKs, and or EK ribbons is a bit much I would think.I have a tunic that could have had an EK? Wound? KVK? GAB? DRL? SA Treffen? etc. etc.I like to display an EK1 because I like em!

Well, I can always cover the tunic with a smock. But, for the moment I leave the tunic way it is.

Dont remove it Fred its been there too long and would harm the piece.Its a nice representative tunic for a lower ranking SS officer who served.If he served on the staff of an NPEA school in Vienna,that really is an interesting aspect of history,werent they the Nazi training school?

Leave this tunic as it is, put it in the center of your collection and be happy with it like many others would be to have such a nice tunic in their collection. I know even the old veterans upgrated sometimes their tunic after the war, when this is really the case here. Nice tunic in the right quality shape what is very hard to find these days.

If it were mine I would remove the DKiG, as it doesn't belong there. This tunic is named to a soldier that didn't earn this medal so I would remove it. If you had no name inside and didn't know who it belonged to, then I would leave it on because you can only speculate who it belonged to, but not with a named piece.

Just my opinion.

Tim

I leave the tunic the way it is... It looks fine with me and the insignia are on the tunic since the 70's.