UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum Hans Weissenbock SS tunic

I got hold of this stunning tunic that once belonged to SS Untersturmführer Hans Weissenbock. The tunic was in the collection of Keith Beaumont for 30 years or so.

Note the absence of the French cuffs, this tunic is a late-war manufacture.

German Cross in Gold, cloth version.

Sleeve eagle.

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More detail.

The back.

As you can see this tunic lack a full lining often seen in officers tunics.

More...

The name tag.

Shoulder board.

AK chevron.

Eagle close-up.

Camo cap variation.

Fred, this is really a nice tunic.

Very Nice Fred! I like this..and there is something speical to the wool which I believe is a wool found on specificially late manufacture/war SS tunics..I love the Favoriten Strasse in Wien!....fantastic piece! The deep scallops on the pocket flaps are a nice hallmark typically seen on Austiran tailored pieces..
I thought this was the 10district..but I see Wien IV..so the fourth district..this district is Wieden! Some info on the district

http://www.answers.com/topic/wieden

What regiment and unit did he belong to,when did he win the DKG and what were the dates?
I have a copy of a personel file for a Johann Weissenbock.However he was in the Cavalry and didnt win the DKG also he was either injured or transfered to the NPEA School in Vienna.

Nice tunic!

Mark

Thanks for the compliments guys.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnPic79:
What regiment and unit did he belong to,when did he win the DKG and what were the dates?
I have a copy of a personel file for a Johann Weissenbock.However he was in the Cavalry and didnt win the DKG also he was either injured or transfered to the NPEA School in Vienna.

John,

I have been told by Keith that when he got hold of the tunic in the early 70's the DKG was on the tunic. I have also been told Hans Weissenbock served a short while with Das Reich.
All in all I have asked Rob McDivitt to investigate the matter.
Here is a picture of Hans.

Fred, Its a very nice tunic and from a well known tailoring firm.Let us know what you find out, I was interested in this piece when I first saw it.Im happy to see a forum member bought it Kieth gets some fine items.

Mr Beaumont has had this tunic for as long as i have known his name and it was in his personal collection for most of that time.
cheers
Gary

quote:

Originally posted by Woody:
Mr Beaumont has had this tunic for as long as i have known his name and it was in his personal collection for most of that time.
cheers
Gary

That's why I like this tunic so much as it has been around for such a long time.

Hi Fred,

You know where I am when you get fed up with it

Regards Keith

Hi Fred,

Absolutely a beauty the condition is very very " mooi !! "

Congratulations with your find..

Eric

Any new info Fred? It would be interesting to know the history of this officer.It is only one of a couple DKG tunics with some sort of provenence I have seen.So it is an extreme rarity.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnPic79:
Any new info Fred? It would be interesting to know the history of this officer.It is only one of a couple DKG tunics with some sort of provenence I have seen.So it is an extreme rarity.

I am still waiting John.

From "German Cross in Gold Holders of the SS and Police," volume 2, done by me for Bender Publishing. The only GC holder with a name near the spelling in this thread, I've studied "Das Reich" for over 20 years.

Mark C. Yerger

ERNST WEISENBACH
German Cross in Gold- April 24, 1943
SS# 400 047

Untersturmführer- April 20, 1941
Obersturmführer- April 20, 1942

Iron Cross 2nd Class- October 1, 1939
Iron Cross 1st Class- July 25, 1941#
Eastern Front Medal
Infantry Assault Badge in Silver- July 20, 1942
Single Handed Tank Destruction Strip- July 14, 1942
Wound Badge in Silver- March 16, 1943
Roll of Honor Clasp- August 8, 1941

Born in Kappelrodeck on October 14, 1919, Ernst Weisenbach joined the SS/VT in October 1938 with Regiment “Deutschland.” During the Polish campaign he was a member of an anti-tank crew and in the 1940 Western Campaign was a gun commander while an Oberscharführer and officer candidate.

Following SS officer school courses, Weisenbach rejoined the Division in mid-December 1940 with the 14./Deutschland as a Panzerjäger Zugführer. At that post was mentioned in the same Corps Daily Report as well as Ewald Ehm on July 25, 1941, for the heavy defensive fighting at Jelnja during July 23-25.# On September 10, 1941, he was acknowledged again in an OKH daily report and then was wounded twelve days later.

The following summer Weisenbach took command of the Stabskompanie Panzerjäger Zug of “Deutschland” and by March 1943 had been wounded a total of three times. Succeeding Hauptsturmführer Christian Brühne at the start of April 1943, Weisenbach took command of the 4./Deutschland. Leading that company, he was killed in Schtschutschinka, Russia, on October 9, 1943. Heinz Harmel and Kurt Brasack recommended him for the German Cross in Gold in early April 1943 with the following proposal.#

"On August 5, 1941, during the fighting near Ushakowa, the I./Deutschland was encircled. Obersturmführer Weisenbach was ordered to establish contact with the III./Deutschland by means of a fighting reconnaissance and to explore the possibilities to break up this encirclement. After having worked his way through the enemy's positions and established contact with the III. battalion, he guided elements of the III. battalion to those enemy positions recognized as weak.

Being far ahead of the battalion's elements himself, he boldly decided to move to the attack with his eight men, broke into the enemy's positions and mopped them up over a length of 150 meters, during the course of which, aside from several of the enemy's heavy machine guns, two anti-tank cannons were captured.

Through this bold and determined penetration of the enemy's front, he created the basis for elements of the I. Battalion to immediately move to the counterattack, break into the enemy front and thus break up the encirclement. Thus, elements of the II. battalion, which had been brought in for relief, did not need to be put into action. During this incursion caused by Weisenbach, the enemy lost 218 dead, several anti-tank cannons, heavy machine guns and light machine guns.

On September 21, 1941, Weisenbach's platoon was subordinated to the I./Deutschland and took the point position there. When the vanguard came under direct close-range enemy artillery fire, Weisenbach ordered his anti-tank crew to dismount, brought his cannons into position and, from an open firing position, opened fire. Due to his personal firing coordination, the enemy's batteries could be eliminated by well aimed fired.

With the draught vehicles, which had been drawn up immediately, Weisenbach and his men, now acting in an infantry role, broke into the enemy's battery emplacement and destroyed the crew, who were defending themselves fighting as infantry. During the subsequent counterattack by enemy tanks, Weisenbach and his platoon destroyed three tanks at the closest range.

On March 12, 1943, during the heavy defensive fighting east of Charkow, the enemy attacked the positions of the I./Deutschland at Frunse east of Charkow at night. This tank-supported enemy attack, which apparently was intended to turn the battalion's flank in two directions, could be stopped by immediately taken anti-tank measures. Obersturmführer Weisenbach, in a daring tank hunt, pursued the enemy tanks already operating deep in the rear of the I. battalion. At a range of 20 meters, he opened fire on one of the enemy tanks and managed to put it out of action by hitting its turret.

In this fashion, Weisenbach with his three anti-tank cannons pursued one of the seven intruding super-heavy tanks at a time and caused them so much trouble, that they turned away. The enemy infantry, which was at a strength of two battalions, noticed the tanks' turning away and broke off the engagement, attempting to escape in the dark of night. During this, the I. battalion, immediately setting out on a counterattack, managed to inflict on the enemy the heaviest losses of men and materiel.

On March 22, 1943, during the establishment of the bridgehead at Michailowka, east of the Donez River, the enemy, after having been thrown out of Michailowka, attempted to re-enter the town with reinforced units. Obersturmführer Weisenbach, after being reported this and acting on his own decision, brought up his heavy weapons from their concealed firing positions and, from open firing positions, inflicted the heaviest losses on the enemy by direct fire.

After this attack had been repelled, the enemy again attempted to enter the town under cover from his artillery and grenade launchers. Obersturmführer Weisenbach once again succeeded to crush the enemy counter attack through the use of his cannons and thus created the basis for the continued advance of the infantry forces and the taking of the most important positions for the main combat line.

On March 24-25, 1943, during the night, the enemy attacked the battalion's bridgehead with approximately two companies and tank support. Obersturmführer Weisenbach immediately put his 5cm anti-tank cannons into tank-hunting action. Through this tank-hunt, which distinguished itself through audaciousness, two enemy tanks could be destroyed. After the tank threat had been eliminated through the destruction of the remaining tanks by the anti-tank company's 7.5-cm-cannons and by close-quarters weapons, Weisenbach positioned his cannons and two anti-tank rifles so far up in the foremost line, that the heaviest losses could be inflicted on the enemy from the shortest distance and the infantry attack could be crushed. Obersturmführer Weisenbach, who has been a participant of every campaign, has particularly distinguished himself in every mission through outstanding bravery, decisiveness and dash."

I want to give an honest observation about the tunic without being ganged up on and called a spoilsport as has happened in the past.

IMO the tunic is a fine original example from that company of Joseph Andrysek. I owned a tunic from them before that bore the same tailoring qualities.

The sleeve eagle IMO was restored or replaced at one time.Look at the cut and the positioning on the tunic sleeve,its far too low, and way back when, collectors were not on the up and up about such details.

The shoulderboards also possibly replaced.Since im not certain but believe Weissenbock finished his combat duty with the SS Cavalry and due to injury or something was assigned to an NPEA school in Vienna until the end of the war.This is not all fact just what I can assume based on the record.Funny because the officer tunic I owned from Josef Andrysek was also to a member of the SS Cavalry who is buried in a cemetary near Vienna.

The DKG was added post war by a collector which back in the 60s-70s was not unusual there was no internet and purist ideology was not as widespread.More people collected just for fun and many of us knew the chances of owning a real tunic to a DKG or KC winner were slim slim.Nobody saw your collection either it was for your pleasure.Just my opinion, still the tunic is a real named SS officers tunic and everything on it is real.I was going to buy it despite my feelings about it but lacked the spare money.

I would agree with John's assesment of this jacket,especially the attachment of the German cross.

Certainly an original jacket,insignia but I doubt all the insignias are original to it.

Glenn

Weissenböck, Hans

SS-Ustuf.
Born 14 April 1912 Rottingbrunn

SS #298 345
as SS-Rttf. in 3./Kav.Rgt.1 in Sep 41
as SS-Ustuf. in Dienststelle.Heißmeyer in May 44

According to the records he was asigned to the Junkerschule Tolz sometime in 1942 and I cant really make out the other assignment it appears to be a temporary to the LAH for a very brief time and then to the NPEA in Vienna.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnPic79:
I want to give an honest observation about the tunic without being ganged up on and called a spoilsport as has happened in the past.

IMO the tunic is a fine original example from that company of Joseph Andrysek. I owned a tunic from them before that bore the same tailoring qualities.

The sleeve eagle IMO was restored or replaced at one time.Look at the cut and the positioning on the tunic sleeve,its far too low, and way back when, collectors were not on the up and up about such details.

The shoulderboards also possibly replaced.Since im not certain but believe Weissenbock finished his combat duty with the SS Cavalry and due to injury or something was assigned to an NPEA school in Vienna until the end of the war.This is not all fact just what I can assume based on the record.Funny because the officer tunic I owned from Josef Andrysek was also to a member of the SS Cavalry who is buried in a cemetary near Vienna.

The DKG was added post war by a collector which back in the 60s-70s was not unusual there was no internet and purist ideology was not as widespread.More people collected just for fun and many of us knew the chances of owning a real tunic to a DKG or KC winner were slim slim.Nobody saw your collection either it was for your pleasure.Just my opinion, still the tunic is a real named SS officers tunic and everything on it is real.I was going to buy it despite my feelings about it but lacked the spare money.

John,

I agree with you that I have my doubts on the DKG as well. That's why I am looking for more information regarding Hans Weissenbock. About the other insignia I really can't be for sure until I have collected more information. If Weissenbock served with the SS Cavalry we know certain some post-war replacement did occur.

Still, I am extremely proud with this tunic regardless of the possible replacements.

I think I qualify to make the statement there was no GC holder in the SS by the name attributed to the tunic.

Mark C. Yerger

Fred,despite all that, it is a really fine tunic, I would be happy with it as an example and it did belong to an SS officer who had an interesting history serving in the SD, then the Cavalry and finally an NPEA school.)Plus it is made by a tailoring firm that made some of the finest tunics and caps.The tunic I once owned was made from the same type of wool materials.Quite honestly I think 3/4 of all the Waffen SS officer tunics out there were refurbished and or messed with to some degree post war.

We have to keep in mind that there is a remote possibility that Weissenböck got his GC during the last stages of the war. I know of a Dutch officer who is not listed as a holder of the GC, but who got his GC one week before the war ended, on Brückenkopf Altdamm.

Cees

Perhaps defending Vienna in the last days?

This tunic along with various documents etc turned up in the early seventies,unfortunately it all got split up, I ended up with the tunic,Charles Barger had some documentation,as did Ulric Woodhams.Now I remember one of the documents Ulric had concerned Weissenbocks German Cross in Gold,and another I distinctly remember was a letter chastiseing him for marrying a woman with a tainted blood line.Next time I speak with Ulric I'll see if he can give me further details,which I will pass on to Fred.
As for the tunic,what can one say?I personally think its a very nice original Waffen SS junior officers service tunic, and far exceeds many of the tunics I've seen shown on this forum over the last few years.

Kind Regards Keith

Thanks Keith for posting this very interesting information. I sincerely hope you can come up with additional information soon.

The name in Fred's jacket is Hans Weissenbock.

The name that was researched to a DKiG winner is Ernst Weisenback.

Am I missing something here or did the officer that is attributed to Fred's jacket actually receive the German Cross?? Not looking that way to me as I would think it would be documented when Mark researched it.


Glenn

We have to wait and see..

Glenn, There is no evidence that he ever received the DKg....yet.I still think the tunic was doctored some.

It's hard for me to imagine that this or most SS tunics came totally untouched out of the war. That's why I am suscpious of so called untouched items you often see for sale on the internet.
But, the Weissenböck tunic is named and has original insignia... and the taylor of the tunic has it's own reputation. Despite not being untouched this tunic is one of my favorites.

I like it myself Fred and I have learned that its not the purity that gives us the enjoyment its the character and the historical essence.Ive had untouched minty ones that had no character and although perhaps valuable did not take my mind on that trip back through time when I looked at them.

Due to a communication failure Rob McDivitt did not receive my reply to continue the investigation regarding Hans Weissenböck. He expects to come up with information end of July or beginning of August. I keep you all posted.

Fred its a fine tunic you are right to be very proud, I look forward to McDivitts findings, please keep us informed.
cheers
Martin

Rob McDivitt can look all he wants, but he won`t find any confirmation that Weissenböck received a DKiG. I have access to the same records as McDivitt and a lot more and the only awards that the guy's personnel file confirms is that he received the KVK II, eastern front medal for the few months that he spent in a cavalry regiment and the Winkel chevron which is the only thing that matches between the tunic and the official record. His record has him serving as a staff officer up through at least mid-May 1944. It's extremely unlikely that this guy suddenly became such a hero.

John

The rank is correct as well John he was an untersturmfuhrer was he not? I think thet tunic as I said before was refurbished after the war as are many even the captured ones that ended up in collections early on.Collectors have a hard time not enhancing things.

As far as the German Cross in Gold is concerned I know of two instances where it was awarded but there is no record in the books on them. There was a Luftwaffe ace who is not in the GC book but there is a picture of him wearing the award - he was also a Knight's Cross winner. And there is a name etched on the back of a GCiG to another Luftwaffe Oberleutnant who's name is not listed in the book. You would have to look up the individual's personnel file to be sure.

Tim

Quantico - JohnPic and I have already said here that we both have a complete copy of Weissenbock's personnel file (Personalakte) and there was no record of him having received a DKiG or even an EK I or EK II or being posted to a combat unit after 1942. Since personnel files were often not updated after March or April 1945 a better authority for late war awards is the "diary" kept by the Heeres Personalamt that records submittals for these award recommendations and further action taken. I have asked a friend in Germany with access to a copy of that record book to check. The one exception is that approval to award the DKiG and Ehrenblattspange was delegated by the Heeres Personalamt on April 22, 1945 to commanders of Army Groups or separate armies. That authority was ended on May 12, 1945 according to the book in the DKiG by Horst Scheibert. Approval authority was never delegated to division or corps commanders.

As other people have surmised this is a nice original tunic that has been embellished with a DKiG and other questionable awards sometime after 1945.

John

Nice original tunic I think Fred. I would wait untill all the info is in from all archives etc. Then if it is fairly certain that this soldier did not receive the cross in gold then I think the cloth award should be removed even if it leaves a sign. If the tunic is unknown then you can always say maybe. Obviously it would have been better if it was a hard award. But to say that an augmentation makes no difference to a known situation is like saying that I upgraded my 1967 vet from 327HP to 427HP. A VERY big deal! For history's sake the award should either be left or removed depending on the research. Otherwise a travisty to those who won it in the true heat of battle. Since it is a true and real tunic I assume from all the evidence then you should be proud of the tunic as it was originally found. I would be. Just a point of view. David

I am still waiting for the answers. I hope Keith can come up with more as he has seen documents regarding Hans Weissenböck.

Whatever the outcome, I leave the insignia on the tunic. They have been there for over 30 years. Despite everything, I love this named tunic.

I forgot to mention. I would not be heartbroken if the research turns out Hans Weissenböck never received any decorations. I am not like that at all! For me the history of the man who once wore this tunic is more important.
And, most tunics seen today have been altered anyway... some with bad insignia and some from Army tunics.
This one is an orginal SS one, named and from reputable maker.

I agree Fred the history is the most important.A lot of attibuted items were only to Low level officers and Party members. Without them the movement would have never taken hold. Great Tunic and thanks for sharing.

Its a lovely tunic indeed and one I'd be proud to own! We all know how difficult and ellusive real SS officers tunics are.

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Hi just as an aside to some posts previous if you have a tunic with award loops and you place Iron crosses etc.....not knowing with absolute certainty what loops were for what medal does this is anyway desecrate the tunic if it is mentioned that they were added later and were not originally on the tunic? Also if the tunic is not named or researchable does the addition of the combat awards in anyway adversly affect the value? cheers, Ryan

I dont think pinning a badge through an already placed loop matters its just display. However sewing tank destruction strips, DKs, and or EK ribbons is a bit much I would think.I have a tunic that could have had an EK? Wound? KVK? GAB? DRL? SA Treffen? etc. etc.I like to display an EK1 because I like em!

Well, I can always cover the tunic with a smock. But, for the moment I leave the tunic way it is.

Dont remove it Fred its been there too long and would harm the piece.Its a nice representative tunic for a lower ranking SS officer who served.If he served on the staff of an NPEA school in Vienna,that really is an interesting aspect of history,werent they the Nazi training school?

Leave this tunic as it is, put it in the center of your collection and be happy with it like many others would be to have such a nice tunic in their collection. I know even the old veterans upgrated sometimes their tunic after the war, when this is really the case here. Nice tunic in the right quality shape what is very hard to find these days.

If it were mine I would remove the DKiG, as it doesn't belong there. This tunic is named to a soldier that didn't earn this medal so I would remove it. If you had no name inside and didn't know who it belonged to, then I would leave it on because you can only speculate who it belonged to, but not with a named piece.

Just my opinion.

Tim

I leave the tunic the way it is... It looks fine with me and the insignia are on the tunic since the 70's.