UBB.threads Forums General Militaria Names, Documents, Photos and Translation Forum How to research a name on a dagger?

Hello to all,

I recently picked up a nice 2nd Navy with a man's name on scabbard..

All it has is "Gr�tzmacher"

Does any one know of a site that has a roll call of sorts?? It would be nice to narrow it down to a handful of people.

thanks Chris

Hi Chris:

I would recommend that you contact Gustavo Martin ([email protected]) for some advice. This is also a link to his website:

http://www.zeitzeugen1939.com/home.html

Good luck!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

See if you can find the Rangeliste KM Officers
WW11.or log on to Feldgrau.com Forum and ask
the KM research Guru.They are very good.
Easy site to use.
Seiler (yank in UK)

Chris, keep in mind the name on your dagger may not belong to an officer, and so would not be listed in the published Kriegsmarine Ranglisten. Even if he was an officer, only Aktiv career officers are listed in these books (no reserve).

no disrespect to ross recomendation but, failing that guy try mike constandy, he is very good in my opinion

Guys, research is only a hobby for me and i have never charged anyone for my help, when I have had the time to do it...

My only piece of advice here is this. Be aware of the holdings of the various archives. Researchers based in the DC area are usually focusing on, and sometimes limited to the holdings of NARA. NARA does not have copies of the several karteikarten files of Heer officers, for example. These include Reserve officers which were a majority of the total. These karteikarten are held at Bundesarchiv Militararchiv Freiburg. Anyone without access to those files is missing a majority of Heer officers, for example.

More on this here http://www.zeitzeugen1939.com/research.html

Hi Gustavo:

Thanks for your input. I might add that some researchers don't even examine all of the records that are available at NARA when conducting personnel research. Are there personnel files for the Kriegsmarine at Bundesarchiv Militararchiv Freiburg?


Thanks,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

Hi Ross, the KM records are at the Deutsche Dienstelle - WASt in Berlin. Their primary aim is to serve surviving families and they are the least agile in responding to researchers...

"About 2,100,000 personnel documents of the German Navy (Imperial German Navy, Marine Reich, Imperial Marine, Navy, German Minenr�umdienst and dienstverpflichtete) for the period from 1871 to 1947..."

Hi Gustavo:

Thanks for that tip. I am constantly amazed at the number of Germans that come to NARA to research individuals because of the difficulties faced with access to records in their own country.

Regards,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com

I have said that before and have personal experience of general obstruction at the German Archivs.Thats why I have done research in
person or via individuals I have become friends with at the Archivs.Works for me.
Seiler (yank in uk)

Gustavo, Jsy checked your site.
Wow!!@!
What a super job on that site.
Did your build that?

Hi Paul, no, my cousin Daniel did this for me...free of charge. all he would agree to accept was a lunch invitation! His details at the bottom

Simply copying data straight from a few sheets of a Personalakte does not give an accurate biographical synopsis of an individual in the vast majority of cases. That being my experience with SS and Army records in the course of writing and contributing to books for 25 years so assume other areas are similar.

Berlin generated records, especially regards specific Waffen-SS field service, are often so far removed from actual events (and their dates and sub-specifics) that relying on that single source results in incorrect and incomplete information in almost all cases.

Likewise assignment entries in any �Dienstalterliste� issue can be off my as much as 3 months (compilation to printer time) and they really have minimal value in that regards, being of use only for superficial awards data indicated by emblems, birth date, SS and NSDAP numbers, and promotion dates. The latter covering all in the prewar issues and only the most recent in the wartime issues.

Researching any item adds to its historical connection, thus bringing it to life, as well as potentially increasing its intrinsic value. But if you�re actually paying someone for that type of research, be sure they have the resources, aside from a base personnel file, and actual depth of topic knowledge to provide an accurate biographical interpretation of the man�s life.

In other words, get your money�s worth. Paying an inordinate sum simply for copies of some period documents, or the minimal data from a �Dienstalterliste� in the case of SS, is a wasted financial expenditure. If that is all that is offered for the fee, better research sources are available for numerous specific topics by individuals actually specializing in many areas or aspects(civil, SS, SA, other political, military, etc). Of course some may only want the minimal amount of accurate data from a superficial investigation and be fine with paying for that.

Handing a collector a stack of paper copies (personnel file or whatever else) that he can�t understand or figure out more than small parts is just him being charged several times what the copies cost to get and then leaving him to his own devices. He still won�t know what he wants to know for the most part and the majority of US collectors can�t read German. That aside from the rather complicated nature of determining what is right or wrong data.

In that scenario he�ll pay a basically a records �copier� a fee that will be multiple times what it cost him to get the copies, then have to pay a researcher to help him actually understand what he has and put it in coherent (correct) context.

If what someone wants is a biography or unit history (or whatever) of several detailed pages that can be totally understood by anyone not being fluent in German, they should pursue an actual researcher. A guy who studies nothing but Luftwaffe fighter units every day probably already has the original records, and in all probability someone would only have pay him to compile the understandable data wanted.

On the other hand, if someone has the language ability, can get all the non-personnel file relevant sources in addition to an individual�s personal records, and know how to use them in combination to assimilate what are the correct facts or details wanted, than the �copier� dealer will do. Though that involves understandably more cost for the other materials, understanding of the topic in depth, and a LOT of time and patience.

Seems to be a new trend to call someone who simply copies and re-sells archive records a researcher. In my opinion that is not a researcher and there is a major difference between the two. Two different services and two types of individuals. Copying and re-selling archive records on any and all topics requested by anyone is fine.

But the person copying does not have in depth knowledge on every topic, can not compile accurate texts from the material or create an accurate data synopsis with knowledge of correct/incorrect and the relevant, and so is not a researcher. He�s buying and reselling document copies. Making a copy of a divisional war diary does not make someone a researcher. Reading it in combination with other materials and fully grasping the complete contents is research.

If paying someone to research, that is what they should provide. Making copies has value, of course though the two are hardly the same thing.

Amen to Mark's comments. I began studying German about 5 years ago, and practice everyday. It has been a GREAT value to me in so many ways. For those who are interested, an EXCELLENT course to begin with is "Pimsleur" - the best for gaining an initial foundation in any language.

Craig and Mark:

Great notes. My only exposure to German was a couple of years of high school (and I had to take Latin as a prerequisite to get into the German classes). I think that learning to read is easier than learning to speak it, but the complexities of the hand writing make it challenging as well.

I have a couple of 'research' packages here and see exactly what Mark is talking about, a bunch of copies of files and letters and not a lot of explanation of what they are talking about.

John

Hi All:

I also get many people coming to me wanting to know what else might be available on their person in addition to what their "researcher" provided. Since they just received a pile of papers in a folder, they can't even tell me the file source for their documents or give me an idea of what they have. Makes it a challenge to help them out. It is also been very interesting for me to find out what available records were not provided them.

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com