UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Edged Weapons Accoutrements Forum Police Knot on an Army Saber?

I have seen some sabers with the typical Municipal Police portepee attached that appear to have come with the saber. Was this ever practice to attach this type knot to an Army sword? Perhaps if a member of the police also held a rank in the army?

Dual membership was common and there was an interchange of both edged weapons and knots. This is easily verified by many period photographs. Many edged weapons were brought back from the war like this but collectors have removed many of them over the years thinking they were not correct.

Often a police officer having served in WWI or in the Reichswehr or Wehrmacht in the mid 1930s was accepted into the police later with officer rank. He could choose to carry the sword of his former service with the specific police sword knot.

Great topic,
I too was woundering about a police NCO knot being attached to a police officers degen and if it would have been allowed.
Eric

I don't see why it would have been allowed. Senior police NCOs were allowed by regulation to wear the trappings of officer status, but the portepee regulations specified NCO knots for those NCOs authorized to carry the SS-Polizei Unterfuhrerdegen.

Certain army sabers were authorized for wear by police and fire officers: The Eickhorn mod 189 was also a police saber, and the model1710 Blucher and mod1693 Wrangel were authorized to be worn by certain fire officials. Joe S

Please do not spread the opinion that certain common army sabre models have been "authorized" beeing worn by certain branches like custom, fire officials and so on. I have seen such statements very often, done even by the "big" ones in the hobby. I do not know from where this roumor is comming but I strongly believe that the basis is a totally mishappened translation of the EICKHORN Kundendienst. There it is stated with several common army sabres (like eg. Blücher) that they ARE (ALSO) LIKED TO BE WORN ("beliebt") by a certain branch (like custom). This was nothing more as an "observation" or suggestion by the EICKHORN firm. NOT a single word about authorisation. The selection of any firm and model was to the taste of the buyer (when he was AUTHORIZED to WEAR an army style sabre).
Regards

I must confess Wotan that I am perhaps responsible for the misconception expressed by Joe S in his comments. In 1978 when I wrote the chapter on police edged weapons for Tom Johnson Vol.IV, I believe I did in fact "interpret" the Eickhorn Kundendienst catalog description for those Heer sabers in the manner of "authorized". You are correct of course. There was no authorization, only a sales suggestion. Mea culpa.

I guess I have to take my fair share of the blame also because I based my statement on the Kundendienst, which I assumed was based on authorization in the regulations. I do believe there is some photographic evidence of police officers wearing army style sabers, isnt there? Joe S

Courtesy J. Angolia "Swords of Germany"

Water protection police officer.

Police officer with dual membership in Army/Police.

You're right. There is a great deal of photographic evidence of Heer or KM blades being worn by police officers. But those blades were from prior service. The only authorization was to be able to wear blades from prior service in the Wehrmacht.

Since the edit function seems to be non-functional, I withdraw my above Mea Culpa. I didn't write that those Eickhorn swords were authorized for the police in my Johnson Vol.IV chapter.