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#56134 10/15/2006 09:03 AM
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Maker is Alcoso.

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#56135 10/15/2006 09:05 AM
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...

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#56136 10/15/2006 09:09 AM
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Another...

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#56137 10/15/2006 10:37 AM
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Very nice to have the complete rig, congrats... Did you get it with the accounterments?

Red

#56138 10/15/2006 11:50 AM
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very nice. Well done!


Thanks, Blademan

#56139 10/15/2006 01:32 PM
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Yes, I've find it with hanger & knot.

#56140 10/15/2006 02:08 PM
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What a beuty!
Are al these gouvernament daggers internal numbered?
regards Jan

#56141 10/15/2006 02:15 PM
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Very beautifull dagger indeed!!

I believe every part is individually numbered. I don't have one myself, but someone offered one to me where not all parts had a number on it.
Is it possible to show some pics of the numbers on the parts??

PJ


Kind regards,

Peter Jan
#56142 10/15/2006 02:57 PM
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This and the Diplo are impressive looking daggers, yours has that been there look, Congrat,s on a great addition to your collection.
Horst


"He who hesitates is lost- is not only lost but miles from the next exit"

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#56143 10/15/2006 02:59 PM
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Thanks for your comments.

Yes it's exact, all part of this dagger are stamped with the same number. On mine, the number is 216. It's stambed on all part of the grip & the tang of the blade.

#56144 10/15/2006 03:46 PM
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Normaly (when you can use this word in relation on III.R. items) the ALCOSO daggers are numbered at really all the parts, EICKHORN ones only on some (fitted) parts.
Matarese, nice dagger you have.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56145 10/16/2006 01:55 AM
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the correct knot should be with small acorn this one appears to have had a life long standard silver one with large or normal acorn

PAUL

#56146 10/16/2006 08:09 AM
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When you do look at contomporary photographs with this certain dagger worn you can see that often a "normal" portepee is attached. Those small acorns seem to be scarce even at those times Wink.
Attached you see a diplomat´s (together with govs) with a real small one.

Trippleshot_002.jpg (65.05 KB, 501 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56147 10/16/2006 02:00 PM
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This is good to confirm as now I can go ahead and put a normal portepee back on my GO.

Wotan who is the maker of the centre GO with the bad plating never seen one lose it like that.

Paul

#56148 10/16/2006 06:08 PM
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paulbear, the GO with the "bad plating" Roll Eyes as you liked to say Wink is, as easily to be seen on several features, made by EICKHORN.
BUT: The untouched dagger has one OF THE BEST PLATINGS you might see on daggers. Heaviest quality silver plating still 100%. Has turned to a steelblue/black even patination. Only contrasted by those regions where the protection laquer still has remained and the frosted white of the silvering still can be seen. A look which you can find imo only on 1 of 50 or more daggers.
I have to admit that a scan cannot do any justic to this (and the other, ALCOSO ones) and therefore the misunderstanding impression.
If you could hold this stunning (sorry but it is) in hands you could understand.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56149 10/16/2006 07:59 PM
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OK I understand hope I didn't hurt your feelings to bad the pic just showed what appeared to be a problem area and as I have a near perfect ALCOSO was wondering what maker. I thought these where to high quality to have the problem I THOUGHT I WAS SEEING SIGH! Happy it is a great dagger

PAUL
BY THE BY any luck finding hangers that are affordable

#56150 10/17/2006 01:17 AM
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To all this is a great example of an original non "textbook" issue in regards to the knot. Do you really think the Germans gave a crap about a knot size on the dagger? Get real! Think about it in modern terms, a man visits a gun shop, buys a nice Colt .45 ahhh but the matching holster is not available, however another is available for the same price. Gee what to do? Do men really care about accessorizing? Well most don’t. Just like the variation of the eagles, diplo/ government type. I have found NO evidence that the diplomats only used the rarer version of these daggers. Prove me wrong. I love to challenge the “experts” of reference books. Too often people fail to think outside to box and use common sense.

Nice daggers!

#56151 10/17/2006 07:10 AM
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@paulbear, not the least hurted feelings at all Smile, it is my bad scan. I only had to do justice for this wonderful dagger. I only once have seen one with an equal look and condition which was at Craig´s site .

@ Eric "Von" Rader, I would sign what you have written straight out IF there would not be one point: Daggers, portepees, hangers were part of the uniforms. Uniforms were under formal restriction codes (otherwise a luft guy could have gone to a uniformen shop, buy an army dagger and wear it - this was only possible under certain also striktly regulated conditions). A diplomat or one of the higher gov´s for sure did not walk into a uniform shop and buy a dagger and any portepee which was there. He ordered it and the proper accouterment. Mostly not only one of them as these high wigs did not want to change the dagger/sword with each of their different uniforms.
I am fully aware that there were broken regulations on and on, my nicest army has attached a luft knot done during the III.R. by the former wearer (came out of his family). But at least there were lines which had to be followed by the vast majority of men.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56152 10/17/2006 12:53 PM
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ok is this why Stepp wore a gold eagle? We are not talking about a Luf man buying a Heer dagger. This is very noticable. WE are talking about a small silver knot. Not to mention the knot is only slightly smaller, a minor detail, just like the eagles head direction on the GO/Diplo daggers. Another regulation that was often ignored was the engraving of crossguards and blades. What about the proper mounting of the knots, there are many photographed examples of knots tied in non-regulated ties.

I doubt the high leaders looked a the direction of the eagles heads on the diplos daggers or the size of the knots to make sure they were correct.

#56153 10/17/2006 02:49 PM
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First I want to concern on the certain portepee: Whenever you had the luck to see or own one in real you immediately will recognize the difference to the "normal" one. There are a lot of them (wishful thinking) around which only tend to come close to the one (width of the acorn) or the other (length of the acorn, stem) limit of a totally "normal" portepee. As said you recognize immediately the right thing when you see it and have a minimum experience on knots. Also the stem is more fragile, the brocade waving is much more delicate, the ground material of the cord obviously is another one as with the "normals". I think that those who don´t care miss the real one Wink.
Concerning diplos versus govs and the direction of the head: It is a minute difference but as stated several times before minute diffrences made a lot of daggers. WC versus LC: simply the color; different foresters: simply the different grip material; polic and SSdegens: simply a small grip emblem or an altered pommel; and and and...
Believe it or not, you may take it or leave it. What I do know about these times such minute details were very important for those who were concerned. Especially during time of "peace".
Again I personally think that these collectors who don´t mind might miss the right thing, but this is my personal opinion.
As already stated several times violations of all rules, some more prominant, others less prominent, are known.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56154 10/17/2006 05:23 PM
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I have a huge library of reference books and when it comes to dagger pics especially in wear it seems they all show and the fact highlighted the the portepee is of the small acorn type . I found this thread very revealing as for the first time for ME it was confirmed in two cases the normal portepee was used . Yes you can use logic and say they broke rules it is a common occurance amongst officers of all armies if that is thinking outside a box it is pretty shallow. I like facts as presented here with pictures.
Thanks for the comments Wotan I iwll now crawl back into my box and search out a nice portepee

PAUL

#56155 10/18/2006 07:54 PM
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Hello Matarese,
very nice dagger .See i right , that the blade is nickle-plated? I mean that is rar on Gov's, or i am wrong!

#56156 10/18/2006 08:04 PM
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while we have this thread going can anyone show off thier GO DIPLOMATIC HANGERS

#56157 10/18/2006 10:17 PM
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Sure! This is a mint early set w/ the black velvet backing.

The dagger is NM, has never been cleaned. I love the super blue silver patina! 99% of these daggers have been cleaned, so yes it is VERY hard to find one with the patina. As you can see from the photos the silver aluminum hangers vs the heavy patina of the GO dagger.

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#56158 10/18/2006 10:19 PM
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just hangers

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#56159 10/18/2006 10:20 PM
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one more

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#56160 10/18/2006 10:57 PM
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beautiful set can't believe the hangers are costing almost half the value of the average dagger when you can find a set.

PAUL

#56161 10/18/2006 11:51 PM
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The truly "mint" to "NM" hangers are VERY hard to find, if you do find a set they will cost you some big $$$. I am looking for a NM-M set of Teno hangers, they are $2500.00 and up. Frown

#56162 11/03/2006 06:11 PM
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Does anyone know roughly how many gvt daggers were made? Who exactly wore them? There cant be as many as say SS daggers?
What are the going prices on these?

I love the look of the gvt dagger very nice indeed. I just wish i had the money!

Show us more photos people! Also any photos of them in wear.

LDR

#56163 11/03/2006 06:32 PM
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Hi Eric--I understand what you are saying about the wear of the GO by Diplomats-and it is sometimes hard to see the direction of the eagle's head in the photos--but--the thing is-when it CAN be seen -it is always the Diplomatic type dagger being worn by Diplomats. Of course--just one photo can change all that-but we have not seen it yet. Wink


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#56164 11/03/2006 07:15 PM
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Houston, then how do you explain the fact that Ribbentropp's Dagger was a GO. This was seen in the old famous photo of the Orders and Medals with the dagger in the center from the TX veteran who captured his trunk.
Bob Thompson examined this dagger in person and found it to be a silver GO.
As I remember, it was non-discript and sold off as any other GO at the time.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria


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#56165 11/03/2006 08:07 PM
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Ron Weinand: I don't believe that a guy like Ribbentropp had only one dagger among his possessions. He had a whole array of visors, belts, and uniforms etc., not all of which were recovered and identified as his property. Even is sword was not recovered and he might have had more of those as well. After all, he was in a top position with lots of influence and not exactly destitute.

#56166 11/03/2006 09:12 PM
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I think the Ribbentrop dagger explanation is very simple(!): Rippentrop at his hight was NO Diplomat (any more), he was Minister of foreign affairs and therefore a GOVERNMENT official.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56167 11/03/2006 10:04 PM
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Believe as you wish, but this is the one dagger he owned that is documented.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria


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#56168 11/03/2006 10:34 PM
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Ron, as I said I think (see my explanation) the GO has been proper for Ribbentrop.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#56169 11/03/2006 11:08 PM
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The proof is in the pie! Where are the photos????

#56170 11/04/2006 01:34 AM
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Wotan-Your answer is interesting and it could be "the answer" to this question. Seeing the GO in wear by a Diplomat would be the only proof for me that this occurred.


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#56171 11/24/2006 02:01 PM
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Are some Government dagger blades found without a maker mark? If yes, are these any less in collector value that those marked?


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