UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum WKC - No numbers

Could somebody please enlighten me on this example I have just aqquired. It is marked W.K.C and is devoid of any other markings to bayonet or scabbard, no production run numbers or waffenampt stamps to bayonet or sheath. The only other markings are to the rear of the frog '***** GEHREKER' ?.
Would this have been an issued bayonet, police / postal / other or is this a regular occurence on pre-40 WKC examples. Many thanks in advance

Commercially produced example, these were used by police and other quasi muilitary units, probably a police uint as others tend to be marked but impossible to say

great untouched condition, it should be probably 1944 production. best regards,Andy

Many thanks chaps, it certainly appears late war and is crudely finished. I take it there is no way of knowing how many of these were produced, i did a forum search for unmarked bayonets and it seems that not that many have been posted, is it because collectors do not rate them as highly or because there are just fewer examples. Would this have been a private purchase?, and if this is late war should it not be marked cvl
Thanks

Commercial blades used a different stamping from the military issue ones. Alcoso, WKC and Weyersberg all made comemricla blades with their name rather than the late war letter codes, you can also find them with no makers mark at all, i have a very late war one that is completly free of markings

Bayonets procured for the military (Wehrmacht) were inspected/accepted by the German Army’s Heereswaffenamt. As stated bayonets procured for the German Police and other quasi-military groups were acquired without the involvement of military inspectors and will not have Waffenamts or use the Army’s Fertigungskennzeichen (codes) or for the most part serial numbers. All of which would leave no doubt as whether an item was Wehrmacht property or not.

In the case of these late war bayonets (5 makers) the commercial contract or contracts for them were later in the war as compared to early issues. Nothing wrong, just different, and IMO probably scarcer than standard same period military issue bayonets. Best Regards, FP

FP

You mention 5 makers, i know ALCOSO with two different makers marks (text and scales) Weyersberg (single and 3 line types) and the WKC, what are the other two? so i can add them to my wants list, must have read it in the books but I've slept since then ;-)

Very interesting and great explanations, it looks as though I have another collecting gap to fill with the other 4 late war missing commercials. Having checked BCN I take it the 5 are :
1) EICKHORN
2) WEYERSBURG
3) ALCOSSO
4) HORSTER
5) WKC

Your help is always appreciated,
Kind regards
Jon

Darn it i reckoned on about just under 90 blades to get examples of all WWII 84/98 markings (there are 53 different makers marks used in between 35 and 45!) and it it now seems I have to add another 3, as i have both alcoso and both weyersberg makers marks (one of their police contacts had the same marking as their army makers marks), never seems to end

Degens:
Strangely enough, I too picked up a com'l "W.K.C." last week at the Costa Mesa Show...$110.00, no frog.
Pretty nice cond. with "blanko" scab. which is correct.
Is your scab. a "blanko"?
Jack

Jack,
The scabbard is a blank, it took me an age to get it out of the frog to check fully without ripping the leather. I beat you on price, mine came courtesy of UK EBAY for the grand total of $87. It looks as though we both snagged a bargain . Do you have any of the other makers?.

Carl...I thought I was addicted, where the hell do you store them all.

Carl, Hörster’s will have a WaA519 Waffenamt on the top of the pommel in front of the bayonet bar slot - usually partially under the flashguard. And are normally seen with red Bakelite grips and no other markings. Eickhorns will have no marks at all. And usually have very light/whitish colored wood grips. Good Luck!!

Jack, I’m glad to see that the “Bayonet Vacuum” is still scoring the goodies!!

I know Jack has it bad - I caught it from him. And now Jon. Looks to me like the infection is spreading.

Regards to All, FP

quote:

Originally posted by Fred Prinz (aka "Frogprince"):
Hörster’s will have a WaA519 Waffenamt on the top of the pommel in front of the bayonet bar slot - usually partially under the flashguard. And are normally seen with red Bakelite grips and no other markings. Eickhorns will have no marks at all. And usually have very light/whitish colored wood grips.

Great to learn something new everyday ! Thanks to everyone, especially FP for generously sharing his knowledge with us !

Keith

FP

Many thanks on that will now have to look again at my unmarkd blades, and see if i can match them up

Guy's I have also seen a Commercial Clemen & Jung. I also have a Horster (1941ish) that has dark grips and with an eagle D on the spine and an MU (umlaut over the U) Perhaps the MU is for a City Police Unit (Munich?). Any Horster Comm. is very uncommon as is C&J. Whereas the two Weyersbergs and Coppel are the most frequently encountered, especially WKC. I would say Eickhorn is somewhere in the middle of the pack rarity-wise. Hey Carl are you up for drinks at Notre Dame this spring?----------Jeff Bernish

To clarify my last post, the MU on the Horster is on the side of the pommel where the proofs would be normally.-----Jeff

Degens:
Good hit on the WKC for $87.00!
You asked if I had others.
I have seven other WKC's; six double-stamped aws/Alcoso's and about a dozen "blanko's'...some with Wa's and some are the "thin" blades.
I have to thank FrogPrinz and Fred Marut for some of these Com'ls...they wanted only the pure 98k's with proper year and Maker stamps at one time.
These types are a trip unto themselves...some believe that they were for Polizei or other Paramilitary orgs.
I also have one of the Horster's "H" with sword through the "H" that is on an unblued blade.
Much more research is needed to find out to whom these bayonets were issued.
Good Thread.
Jax

Jeff,

You might be interested in this scabbard.

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-Mauser-bayonet-by-ALCOSO-exc..._W0QQitemZ6619441490


Keith

quote:

. Hey Carl are you up for drinks at Notre Dame this spring?----------Jeff Bernish

Jeff

Would love to, have almost saved up enough to pay fr a large one ;-) but will be going in October again and nto the spring one, as i have trip to amsterdam in May. Have fun over there.

quote:

Originally posted by Fred Prinz (aka "Frogprince"):
Carl, Hörster’s will have a WaA519 Waffenamt on the top of the pommel in front of the bayonet bar slot - usually partially under the flashguard. And are normally seen with red Bakelite grips and no other markings.

FP
You'll be pleased to know you are contributing to my ultimtate bankrupcy (or is this a sublte paln to get some of my blades), walking out of a fair today i picked up an 84/98 just to see if it was one i am missing and lo and behold, nice blued all over, red grips and a WaA artially hidden by the flashguard! so Horster bites the dust, now for WKC and Eickhorn. Shame is the scabbard is unmarked as it should be but is badly pitted but 50USD was still a good price as the blade is very nice.

Many thanks!!

Carl, too bad I won't see you at "Our Lady" in May! I'll see if I can get them to work out a payment plan for our tabs for next time. Back to bayos, how about a photo of the Horster???---Jeff Bernish

I hope to add it to my site this weekend and if the post is nice an RP and another police commercial (along with some non 84/98's)i'll post the horster here once i get it photo'd unfortunaltly batteries ran out tonight as i got to it