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#53848 01/29/2006 04:43 PM
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Thanks Brigadefuhrer; how do you feel about an M36 tunic with a tailor's label dated 1935?

#53849 01/30/2006 01:17 AM
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And getting back to the cute spelling of the month of June on the label, how does anyone feel about a label in your Nazi General's tunic with the month spelled "Juno"?? And by the way, June in Latin is not "Juno", it is "Junius". This Latin word for the month of June (Junius) was derived from the Roman Pantheon Goddess Juno; she was the goddess of marriage & guardian of women. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want a Nazi tunic of any type with the name of a Roman Goddess inside on the label for the name of the month it was made.

#53850 01/30/2006 01:32 AM
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A wartime-used alternate word for Juni (June) would have been "Brachmond", the historic Teutonic word for "June", from the old Germanic calendar. I've had Nazi tinnies with the month of June as "Brachmond", it also appears on antique steins, & years back I had a H.Youth calendar with all the months shown with all the old Germanic names, instead of Januar, Februar, M�rz, etc.

#53851 01/30/2006 01:54 AM
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This question's probably better answered by the tunic specialists, but here's my take; M36 is a style and with a Generals (or officers, for that matter) uniform you're talking about a tailored garment, quite often rendered to the tastes of the owner.

If it was an issue blouse, that might be a problem. Without digging through books I can't give you a clearer answer. Perhaps someone else can.

And I agree, the spelling of Juno is out there!

#53852 03/02/2006 08:30 AM
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Hello

I�m from Germany, so maybe I can give you some insight on the difference between "juni" and "juno".
Schloss 1 is right with the reference to the roman goddess, but the term "juno" for "juni" is even today present in the German language. It is to my knowledge often used by people of the northern part of Germany (I�m from the south) and there mostly by "older" people.

Maybe "Juno" was/is not a common term in the German language, but it was definitely used.

#53853 03/03/2006 10:52 PM
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I guess I will weigh on this one, since I am the new owner of Gerard�s General�s tunic.

Schloss1:"Aahh, regarding that Army General's tunic refered to on Stezelberger's Site, somebody should tell Stezelberger that, on the maker's label, June is spelled "Juni" in German, not'Juno'."...Have you told Gerard yet? Personally, it was with a single query to a German friend from the north that I was able to learn that Juni/Juno are indeed used interchangeably.

Next, you claim that this tunic is a �put-together� and specifically, you point to the EKII/Ost ribbons. I find this a very strange statement to make, based on the photo�s that Gerard provided there is only a superficial view of these ribbons, with no reverse shot or photo of the attaching threads. I have attached small photo collage of three views of these ribbons from Gerard�s site so you can point out the specific areas that you have used to determine the tunic is �put-together.� So would you kindly demonstrate using these photo�s on what basis you have made your bold claim�Regards, John

b.JPG (40.83 KB, 361 downloads)
#53854 03/03/2006 11:47 PM
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Schloss 1,

learn the real german language then you would know Juno was and is still used in the german language very well.

#53855 03/04/2006 03:42 AM
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Hey Hassler,
if you know the German language so well, & I see that your nose has been stuck into this subject since your posting of 26.1.06 which means you've been following it, then why didn't you explain way back then about the difference between Juno & Juni, instead of us having to hear about it from gutemuh, we'd rather have heard from it from such a self-proclaimed SS hot-shot like you, I must so assume you simply didn't know the difference at all til told us by gutemuh, so don't run that sewer beneath your prissy nose at me as if you are someone to tell me to learn the German language "very well". I guess I am remiss to have not paid much attention to my grandparents speaking German when I was younger, & I'm the first to admit that only some of it has stuck. But with them being Bavarians & Silesians, I suppose they never heard of "Juno". And now Mr. Voice-of-Authority in your own mind, but in reality the Voice-of-Authority of the Beginners Peanut-Gallery, it is your turn to get advise on languages,- what YOU need to work on, is to quit using that really stupid put-on fake German accent you continue to use all the time, (hey look I'm a real German, see by my style of twisted English)- it is getting to be very boring, get rid of that phony mis-worded style of English,- why is it in person that you use superb English but when typing you fake it up??

#53856 03/04/2006 04:16 AM
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Having personally met Robert, and no offence to him but his english is not perfect in person just as it is not perfect on this forum. I think you need to chill out Schloss, you took something the wrong way. I hardly think he is faking that he is German. Roll Eyes

#53857 03/04/2006 04:20 AM
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I know he is German (German-American); I have met & talked with him so I know he is not faking that he is German.

#53858 03/04/2006 04:39 AM
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Schloss1 - With all due respect, I don't think the problem here lays with Robert. You were the one who started all this bit over the Juni/Juno issue, condemning the tunic and Gerard. As a non-native German speaker my first move was to consult a native speaker, before rushing to judgement. You were wrong, so let's just move on...

Again, I would kindly ask that you clarify your earlier comments regarding the EKII/Ost ribbons. Please show where, from the photo's that Gerard has provided, your evidence that the tunic is "put-together". Regards, John

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#53859 03/04/2006 05:23 AM
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Well John M. Donovan, congratulations on your purchase of this beauty, it looks like you're sure happy with it, that's good to know, as you are the one who must be happy. I'm sure tho that there are plenty of Army Maj.Gen. tunics available out there in the Land of the Generals that are flawless as far as the application of insignia, so you jumped on this'n? Someday when/if you sell it, you are the one who'll have to explain any idiosyncrasies to the potential buyer. This is what I was speaking of when I said made-up. Not the whole thing, only the application of the collar tabs everybody had been discussing. My opinion is not changed, me personally, I wouldn't want it; I prefer uniforms with their effects to be copesetic & the collar tabs being congruent & equidistant all the way 'round as pertains to distances to the edges. From the pics, it looks (to me) like a goofy job of application; the one tab is up way to high on its backend,- it's up so high it'd rub the neck so why no wear there? Maybe the General wore it once, & then put it away in the closet at home where it hung til war's end, who knows? The other tab is way, way down too far on the lower right. Maybe it's just the pictures? Maybe if in-hand, I'd think differently. But if you are satisfied & on the bandwagon of glee with Gen. Beelzelbug's tunic, that's fine, good luck with it. On the ribbons, I was saying that the mint new-looking ribbons look like they were put on yesterday by Grandmother Schneidermeister; no wear anywhere. It looks like the same mint ribbon set-up on the nr.21 'Der Spiess' NCO tunic. In re-thinking my posting on the ribbons, I'll take that bold commentary back, (as actually, who really cares about $2.oo worth of ribbons.) But I still don't go for the way the tabs were applied. Maybe the guy working on them at the time was an ill-fed & tired slave laborer. Have fun, & "God Bless",

#53860 03/04/2006 07:26 AM
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Hi Schloss1 �

First, you claim that �� I'm willing to bet the same person who sew'd the 2 ribbons to the front (EK2/Russian Front) thru the buttonhole is the same person who put the 2 ribbons on his tunic #21.� This was your statement based on the very limited photo�s provided. Then I ask you to kindly show us on what you are basing this statement, you come up with ��I was saying that the mint new-looking ribbons look like they were put on yesterday by Grandmother Schneidermeister; no wear anywhere.� You are basing your statements on the condition of the ribbon alone? Not the method of attachment or the thread that is use? Then you say �In re-thinking my posting on the ribbons, I'll take that bold commentary back�.

So is this just your thing, to throw negative comments out there with absolutely no foundation? First you were wrong about the Juni/Juno on the tailor's label. Now when asked to back up claim on the ribbons, you've decided to take your comments back. This means nothing you have said thus far is correct.

You should have stopped there, but you didn't...Now you are telling us that your whole basis for claiming the Beelitz tunic was �made-up� is ��only the application of the collar tabs everybody had been discussing.� Really! Pardon me for asking this, but do you realize that this thread was about two different General's tunics?The questions surrounding the collar tab application were regarding the first tunic posted by ShinerB. Now, I think you should respectfully take this opportunity to admit you were wrong � Three Times � and bow out gracefully�Regards, John

#53861 03/08/2006 07:27 PM
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Aw, I get off here for a while & when I come back, I see that Mama Donovan has let her baby boy out of the Germanophile Playroom & let him sit in front of the keyboard. Now, Johnnie, you sit down, clear your head, lock your feet at a 45-degree angle, place your thumbs along the seams of your skirt, straighten the pleats on your skirt, shut up & LISTEN, you word-twisting, manipulative myopic twitter. What do you do to put brot on the table,- are you a flimsy lawyer who goes into the courtroom & twists the truth sideways, upside down, inside out &/or topsy-turvey? Or are you a speechwriter for US Presidents? Or do you write articles about the superiority/great quality of US automobiles? Have been reading some of your past postings, & have noticed some haughty, contentious demeanor, it's a wonder somebody hasn't requested to meet you at a show & grab you by your pigskin, & Drop Kick you outta the stadium. In answer to your inane question that if I realized the thread was about two different General's tunics, yes, I have from the start been aware,- even the nearest crosseyed moron could see that there are two rigs involved. When I mentioned the inconsistency of the sewing-on of the collar tabs, it was concerning the tunic on G.B.'s Site, NOT the tunic as was originally posted by shinerb. Re-read the entire thread, you dazzling incommode! It was shinerb's posting of 12.1.06 12:42 that brought up the subject of the 2d tunic on G.S.'s Site w/the collar tabs that appeared up & above the edge of the collar, etc.,etc. The tabs are on crooked (off-cant) on shinerb's tunic, & they are CROOKED & Off-CANT on your newly acquired tunic also! Really! In reply to another of your baiting questions, yes, yes, yes, again, that's exactly what I'm saying, I am telling you my whole basis for claiming your tunic being "made-up" is the wacky application of the collar tabs, because in my opinion, one goofy aspect ruins the whole thing; it's like buying a new car & one of the doors was put on crooked & doesn't fit properly & won't even open or close; if there's one thing wrong with it, what good is it? Owning your tunic is like sitting on a toilet seat that wiggles. Reviewing your past postings reveals that you try to promote yourself as a most fastidious collector, so why on this tunic did you dope off? I don't see you as fastidious, but I see you as fatuitous.
In answer to your other question, "yes", I was basing my opinion on the condition of the ribbon alone,- quit bringing it up over'n'over about the back of the $2.oo ribbons and/or their attaching threads or manner of attaching, I could give a rat's patutie if they are GLUED ON. My opinion was based on the frontal views on the G.B. Site as you very well know, what the ...., was I supposed to have a Registered New York Medium here with me to give me a psychic vision of the backsides? Really! My statement pointing to the brand-new looking ribbons was not strange at all, as based on the fotos that G.S. provided, they look way too mint & new, & so my opinion was reasonable.
I think you should respectfully take this opportunity to admit you are in remorse for buying this tunic with crooked off-cant collar tabs, you may do so & then bow out gracefully.
Don't take it so hard over this General Beelelbug tunic, John, bend over & take it soft once in a while.
Go now back to your Germanophile Playroom, & play dress-up German soldier in your new uniform.

#53862 03/08/2006 09:49 PM
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Hi Schloss1 �

Have you heard story of "The Boy who cried Juno too many times"? I understand you�re embarrassed at the numerous, public mistakes that you�ve made and you feel obligated to salvage what little dignity you have left, but I hardly think that insulting me and continuing down this line will demonstrate to anyone that you possess even more than a basic understanding of this field. However, I am more than happy to indulge you and I would like to point out, that I make it to most of the major shows if you ever wish to continue this discussion in person�I don't just write well.

Please explain to me how I have twisted anything when all I have done has quoted your own words. I�m no fancy speech-writer, just educated and able to read what you�ve already written. It�s heartening to see that you do realize this thread was about two different tunics, but nowhere in the previous posting did you or anyone point out that there was an issue with the application of the tabs on my tunic. The only �issues� regarding tab application were pointed out regarding the first tunic. So please, by all means show us where the tabs on my tunic were pointed out as incorrect. The only mention of these tabs came from ShinerB when he pointed out my tunic on Gerard�s site writing �with the collar boards that seem large and appear above the edge of the collar.� In this post, he was merely inquiring as to if this was OK, and was mentioned by Brigadefuehrer it is OK. These tunic were tailored around the individual and not the insignia. This fact is born out again and again through the study of period photo�s.

However, I�m glad that are willing to admit that your sole basis for condemning the EKII/Ost ribbons was the condition, because as you said the photo�s do not provide enough information to make a definitive judgement. Yet somehow, the limited photo�s didn�t stop you and you were able to pronounce to us how �� I'm willing to bet the same person who sew'd the 2 ribbons to the front (EK2/Russian Front) thru the buttonhole is the same person who put the 2 ribbons on his tunic #21.� And all this based on condition�Well, let me ask you this: given that the overall excellent condition of my tunic and that this is a General�s rank tunic, what condition would you expect to find the EKII/Ost ribbons? Now, taking into consideration the excellent condition of the tunic and the fact that this worn by a General and not a �field soldier�, wouldn't it be more wrong if the ribbons were not in excellent condition? Again, please elaborate for us some more on the condition of the ribbons...

So now it's not the tailor's label, it's not the ribbons, it's the tabs? OK, I would like to give you the opportunity of demonstrating to us your "knowledge" on the subject. Please, show us all this �wacky� application of the tabs�Your Friend, John

b.jpg (58.56 KB, 172 downloads)
#53863 03/08/2006 09:58 PM
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Hi Schloss, Please show where the tabs are "crooked and offcant". They look symmetrical to me and everyone that has handled the tunic...John

b.jpg (58.56 KB, 166 downloads)
#53864 03/08/2006 10:07 PM
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Here's a side shot of the tab. Please point out to us "wacky" application here. Given the larger size of the tab and smaller collar, it would appear to take a skilled hand to be able to apply the tab so perfectly along the edge of the collar...John

bb.jpg (70.14 KB, 164 downloads)
#53865 03/09/2006 12:18 AM
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Schloss1 - Why you haven't shared your name with us yet? You seem very comfortable making lofty pronouncements and insulting no less than three people(Gerard, Robert, and myself)from the comfort of anonymity. I know it's easier to cast stones from behind the wall, but this is not how a real man behaves. I know your are comfortable lending a name to what you have written, because all your comments have been right on point...John

#53866 03/09/2006 01:13 AM
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Gentlemen. Friendly discussion is a great way for everyone to learn, and that's why we're here. Personal attacks, insults, and name calling will definitely not be tolerated on this forum. If you have any questions, read the Code of Conduct or send me an email.

Vern


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#53867 03/09/2006 01:50 AM
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Here, here Vern...Here is a photo I had on file showing a near identical placement of a General's collar tab...John

H-RK-008.jpg (40.95 KB, 116 downloads)
#53868 03/09/2006 02:04 AM
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This thread makes me laugh.

Why is it that the collectors think all Germans were perfect in their work ?

Can anyone proove that his Lt didn't sew them on for him ?

What about his driver?

Heck anything is possible, since most Generals new spent any time kiss arse in Berlin.

You have to look at the whole tunic to gauge what has or might have been added.

In the past 2 years, I have had 30 generals come through me. I only kept eight.

kent Burg does know what he is talking about on these. I have had a bunch of conversations with him and other Generals collectors about these issues.

Don't buy the BS, take the complete tunic and then decide


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