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Dave Online Content OP
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Thanks. I'll do some good motto pics later today.

Dave

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Dave,

Very interesting...Thanks....


Lou Bell
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Great job,Dave.Is there crossgraining on the blade ?
Thanks.

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Dave Online Content OP
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There is crossgraining on the blade but it is faint and I cannot get a good photo. Here is the motto:

36.JPG (13.27 KB, 1419 downloads)
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Closer left

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Closer right

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Dave Online Content OP
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Back to the scabbard. Looking at it more, I think it is 100% fake. Here is a shot of the top. The fake is on the left and a real Eickhorn is on the right.

32.JPG (81.51 KB, 1377 downloads)
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Dave Online Content OP
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It is visibly narrower. Here it is on the left with a Gembruch scabbard on the right.

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Dave Online Content OP
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Here is the width of the fake.

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Dave Online Content OP
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And now the Eickhorn

34.jpg (31.42 KB, 1360 downloads)
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What is size of the Gembruch, please?


Ralf
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Great stuff, Dave! If there is a sequel to the "SS" book, a chapter on fakes, including this information, would be very appropriate.

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Dave Online Content OP
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Grump,

Trying to find fake SS daggers, unless it is those terrible $20 chained jobs, is very hard. Unfortunately, people who own the halfway convincing ones are trying to sell them as real Frown Frown I was lucky to borrow this one. I will probably buy it to make sure it does not go anywhere.

Also, apologies for one of my pictures of a real blade above. I posted a blade from 1939 when the fake is 1937. Here are two REAL 1937 Eicks:

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Dave Online Content OP
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Another

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Thanks Dave
That was absolutely THE best presentation of how to tell fake daggers. Most of the guys just say its fake and they dont like it with going into the detail like you did. My hats off to you!


Bob
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Dave,
Just a line on the smell of leather...It smells of leather for about 15 years or so.
Ivan.

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Hi Dave,
Great job, you put allot of work into that and it shows. Thanks for sharing and your time. Cool


Matt
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Dave Online Content OP
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Thanks. I hope other who can access a reasonable fake will do similar presentations. To answer questions:

The Gembruch scabbard measured 16.04mm wide compared to the 16.02 mm width for the REAL Eick. I have been measuring and weighing SS dagger components for a while, but never looked at the width of the throatpiece until now. I need to dig out the original specs Big Grin

The leather not only smelled of leather but looked new as well.

Dave

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Dave, Nice info, and well presented. Sooooooo moral of the story, handle the "real" daggers, ask the SR collectos lots of questions, read the textbooks you will avoid getting ripped off! Sounds like a Clark Howard statement!

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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
Thanks. I hope other who can access a reasonable fake will do similar presentations.
Dave


I hope so as well. Thanks for taking the point and leading the way.

Before someone comments, I know books exist and I am reading them as fast as possible, however, there is nothing else like the internet. It can be the greatest educational tool of mankind if used correctly.


React, Adapt and Persevere!

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Dave Online Content OP
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Skip,

Apart from Fred Stephens magnficent opus called "Reproduct ? Recognition?" there are few references.

Dave

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A whole new era starting right here! To be able to interact with the author is so much more educational and truly reinforces the learning experience.


React, Adapt and Persevere!

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The biggest RED FLAG every kid can see is the motto. It's not only different from Eickhorn motto, it has this well known for years, weird "M" in "Meine".
Primitive fake.

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Not all mottos with this style M are fake. I have an authentic one. There were different variations of Fraktur used during the Third Reich. Look at the N in the word Nimmer ("never" in English) in this poster from the March 1933 Reichstag election. Same fluted style. Looks like the big H himself approved of this. Smile

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The problem is Eickhorn never used it Big Grin Besides, we've been always told that "M" like that was associated more with Spain than Germany. What's the maker of your blade, Skyline?

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I agree about the marked Eickhorn. Mine is an unmarked M36. The motto has several differences from the one shown by Dave. The tang is forged with the seven circle mark.

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(Reg. the fake dagger on page 2.) Bloody Hell. And I was scared collecting Japanese Swords. What a mine field (ex. the pun). This one aside, have there been cases where dealers have been duped and onsold a piece unwittingly?
___________
R.R.


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Dave,

We broached this subject at the MAX, but I would like to see it applied to the dagger in your possession. What is the distance from the forte of the blade, the the last letter "e" in "Treue"?

FJS

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Dave Online Content OP
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I need to find it and measure it.

Dave

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Dave, I know that you are a busy fellow - but I would be pleased to see that information when you can get around to. Thanks

FJS

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Dave:
In reviewing this thread I noticed one other feature to the scabbard that appears wrong. I think if you measure the width of the lower scabbard fitting on the fake you may find it's narrower than a real one.
Jim

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Dave Online Content OP
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Now i've two things to measure.

Dave

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Dave Online Content OP
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Jim,

The lower scabbard fitting measures out the same as real ones in depth, width, and height.

Fred,

Look and the fourth picture at the start of the thread.

Dave

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Dave:
Here's the reason I asked you to measure the lower scabbard fitting: Repro on the left. Original on the right. The repro is much narrower than an original. Also note the size of the screw heads.

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Of course, Dave, you are correct. I should have gone back over the photos to see the information. Interesting issue about the position of the motto.

Jim M is right about some of the proportions, even so someone has gone to a lot of trouble to create an item from start to finish - it is a very appealing copy.

Although the item has differences to the pre-war originals, and post war parts Eickhorn pieces, I would not be surprised if this had been created by, or via, Eickhorn. The volume of order that Atwood would have been able to place a "cooperative company", might have been sufficient to justify a small production run.

FJS

PS, I haven't forgotten about the original etching sheet for the trademark that I told you about - I just haven't been able to find it. Will let you see it as soon as I unearth it.

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Dave Online Content OP
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Fred,

Tell us more about post-war Eickhorn parts. That is a new one to me.

Jim,

Screws appear the same. As for the ball, I'd have to do more checking. My memory says that there are subtle differences in shape, even in early daggers, but I could be wrong.

Also, I think that the scabbard fittings were supplier items for all makers and not in-house pieces.

Dave

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Good work Dave very interesting!

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Very interesting tread Dave.

Lh 600

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Dave,

I think guides like this are excellent and have bookmarked it in case I ever buy an SS dagger.

This can be Scary Stuff Eek to the first time buyer especially if you can't see the piece in your hand.


Rhys
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Eek Awesome work Dave


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