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#52162 08/11/2007 09:13 PM
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Dave Online Content OP
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I recently had the chance to take apart and photograph a fake SS dagger. It is one the best I have ever seen in that ALL of the parts of the knife are fake with maybe the exception og the tang nut.

I've got over 30 pictures so hang on forthe full story.

At first glance it looks like a reasonably nice SS RZM dagger.

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Even out of the scabbard, it still looks good, but the more experienced guys will start to smell a rat Big Grin

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Here are the faults. Start keeping a list

- The blade motto is too far down the blade

4Blade.JPG (11.53 KB, 3460 downloads)
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The distance is way over the nominal 25mm you should expect to find.

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The same thing is true of the trademark on the back

6Mark.JPG (26.65 KB, 3462 downloads)
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Here is a real blade. Note the position. Also note that the fake one has got the trademark correct, but too low.

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The only other time I have seen this excat fake blade was the the one sent to me by 3 Finger Louie (Louis Wayne Blackburn) for examination. It was the one with the Eickhorn silverware trademark added.

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The blade is also noticeably too narrow if compared with a real one. 32mm vs what is normally 34mm

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The tip is ground slightly off-center. By itself this would not be a red flag as I have seen it on real blades. On this one it is another nail in the coffin

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The tang is slighly fatter than you expect to see

12_Tang.JPG (5.35 KB, 3316 downloads)
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Now that you have seen the blade, check out the hilt

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The lower fit is not that good, but some real RZM daggers are that way. Once apart, I am convince the entire grip is a fake.

Here is the botton. That is not a wallowed out hole, but a faker's attempt to duplicate that hole in the real ones made by a mortising (sp?)chisel. It is two holes drilled on the side of the first hole.

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The top of the grip shows that the guy drilling the holes was not quite accurate. That little blob you see inside is epoxy resin holding in the rune button

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The rune button is too bright and looks like one of those fake stickpins.

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another

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I think that the eagle is probably a real late model zinc eagle ...maybe.

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The problem is that recess forthe eagle was too small and the eagle-mounter fellow tried to jam it in there, And bent it

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another view

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From the bottom

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Now if look really close, you can spot epoxy in the eagle's "armpit"

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Also at the end of the wing. The faker tried to paint over it.

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Moving on to the scabbard, I think that the scabbard might be real. It has a few quirks, but I cannot make up my mind. It had been repainted

Whatever it is, it is probably not an Eickhorn scabbard.

It (the one from the fake dagger)is on the left and an Eickhorn RZM scabbard is on the right. Note the fat throatpiece that is characteristic of the Eicks on the right.

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The one that came with the fake is slightly longer and has a different shape to the lower fitting.

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The fit of the throatpiece is a little off

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It looks as if there are traces that it was pried out (??)

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OOOPPS - Forgot to show you the crossguards. Made with a home casting set Big Grin Note:

- Imcomplete grooves that the faker did not bother to clean up with a file

- Lower hole a little too rounded and upper hole a little too large (?) They are also about 15% heavier than normal guards.

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One to the vertical hanger. Fake too

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The whole thing looks new. Too shiney. No paint loss to the rivets. But the clip is the obvious give-away. Cast from grey metal.

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The other side of the clip confirms it

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Close up of the clip

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Another shot of the leather. It still has the leather smell. I've loaded that too, but if you don't have "Smell-O-Net" service from your provider, you'll have to take my word for it Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin

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Well, that's it.

It is one of those things that you could pick up, look at quickly and buy without knowing. Or get it off the internet.

As I said, it is the best more or less complete fake (not just a phoney blade) I have seen so far. Hope it helps.

I still have it, so I can take more pics.

Dave

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Dave, thanks for posting this thread.
Could you post some better pics of the motto? I seem to see that the dots over the "i"'s are more triangular than on original mottos?

Or is it just my tired eyes?? Big Grin

Cheers,


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An education in what to look for Dave,thanks for posting such an informative thread,where are these being made,any ideas.
Ivan.

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R
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Thank you Dave
very valuable informations to provide loosing money


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hi dave thx for this kind of info. its what newbies like me like to see...... also the cross in the Z in the makersmark is different it is flat on the ends of the fake where the original the right end is slanted... anybody elsee see this?

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Thanks Dave! Excellent educational piece! A real keeper in my info file.


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That's a classic Atwood piece right down to the fake vertical. If you train your eye you can spot those narrow blades right away. The fake SA's & NSKK's had this fault too.Also--I can't recall seeing any real SS daggers that have the late pot metal grip eagle-VERY few at best. SA's will sometimes have it. This dagger and hanger is approx 45 years old. As Dave says -there may be a few real parts on it. That new leather smell lasts quite a long time.


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I agree whole-heartily . . . thanks Dave, an exceptionally informative thread! Are there variations in the measurements for other SS daggers, by other makers both RZM and early maker marked? Confused ~ Ian


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Dave, an excellent and detailed study, thanks!!! Do you have a straight shot of the motto, it appears to have the "funnel M"?

Red

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