UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum German modified VZ-24

I have recently acquired an interesting German modified VZ-24 which have all rivets on the guard ground flush. I have never seen this before and wonder if any one has a similar piece ?

While on the subject, I dug out all other pieces in my collection and am always amazed by the variations that have done to these bayonets. Here is what I have, I am sure other members have more ! What have you ?

From left to right :

Low ears, rivets on guard ground flush, scabbard throat reversed, side screw moved to right, serial numbers added

High ears, scabbard throat reversed, side screw moved to right

Low ears, scabbard unaltered

Low ears, serial numbers added (on other side of guard), scabbard throat unaltered, side screw moved to left, frog stud reshaped

High ears, scabbard throat reversed, side screw moved to right, frog stud reshaped

Nice to know standardisation prevailed! seems like any and all modifications were possible on these, and of course you have the German used unmodified as well. A substantial colelction can be built up from just this one blade, i have 20-30 and haven't got into the variations Keith has found (yet)

Keith, A very impressive grouping!! I’ve seen the flush ground rivets on other examples. And it looks like at least one of them has had non operative screw slots cut into the spanner bolt. I would add that still others have the opposite side of the press stud ground flat as well. And cut down/shortened blades and scabbards (fairly rare).

If they are not indicative of some kind of schizophrenic behavior when altering these bayonets. I don’t know what better kind of evidence there is to prove the point besides the bayonets themselves.

And to also add to the mix a “minimalist” conversion. With this example only having a serial number added. Regards to All, FP

Hello Keith, it could be a specific rework in a field depot, or it was applied the new spare crossguard from late 1941/42 production?. Your pieces are all upgrades from older pieces? The rotated screws i dont believe it is origin from WW2. best regards,Andy

Thanks FP & Andy,

Looks like I have to set off to look for one with pressed stud ground flat, I found that these pieces are kind of interesting !

Andy, the guard is not a replacement, you can see the grinding marks on the guard. Yes, they are all upgrades from older piece, most have earlier Czech marks. Interesting comments about the throat screw, do you mean these are converted by other countries post war ?

With best regards,

Keith

Hello Keith, it could be real that the crossguard is only reworked, but exist difference between new and old production. To the orientation of screws, it could be done by previous owner,any of the bayonets are Z in circle or all are prewar production? Thanks,Andy

Hi Andy,

Thank you for the comments, here's the reply to your question :-

A - bayonet pommel marked 3P 2061, no other stamps, scabbard H 'lion' 2?

B - bayonet E3 'lion' 37, scabbard ZI 'lion' 30

C - bayonet E 'lion' 29, z in circle on guard, scabbard CSZ, E 'lion' 25

D - bayonet z in circle on guard, 111 on other side of guard, scabbard unmarked

E - bayonet marked 31 on hilt, z in circle on guard, scabbard ZI 'lion' 31

Thanks again,

Keith

Thanks Keith for claryfication, nice bayonets. best regards,Andy
D was from export?

Hi Andy,

You are probably correct about 'D', the piece is entirely unmarked except z in circle and 111 stamped on the cross guard. The lettering is exactly like those in FP's photo above.

Regards,

Keith

Ich habe einen Vz-24 mit einen z im cirkel und ein sehr kleines abdruk..verleicht eine WaA??

Was beduiddet der Z im cirkel? und was ist der herstellungsjahr?

DesertWolf-
I think the z in the circle is a czech stamp. a waamt will look like one. I dont have a clue when these were made, but am sure others do! All I can tell you is that dot stopped production of them in 1943, but did then DOT start making Sg 84/98 mod III's in 1944 or completely stop bayo production?

Hello, the Z in circle could be a export bayo, produced in 1939-43 period, the dot production probably stopped in 1943 and no SG84/98 ever produced in Brno. best regards,Andy
PS picture would help, the link to Your site Woestewolf,is not functionable now ? or i have bad address??

Beside the export models Andy cited, the circle/Z is seen on early CZ production under German production with the WaA63 Waffenamt on the underside of the grip/spine of the bayonet. Production from Bystrica used twin circles, one inside the other, with a Waffenamt eagle/607 on the obverse side of the blade. Later Bystrica production (blued and w/o muzzle rings) had an eagle/A80 on the obverse side of the blade. Although I have seen some examples w/o the A80 but same period production.

Without images I’m not sure just what it is that we are discussing FP

Here is the circle/Z together with the WaA63 I cited. While Andy knows this much better that I do, my understanding is that the “Z” represents the Ceskoslovenská Zbrojovka (Brno).

Also make that “CZ production under German supervision (not production)”. FP

Thanks FP,but i believe You are correct in all way and You have seen more bayonets marked this way as my self. Our conversation helped me in the researches in majority,thanks. best regards,Andy