#50041
02/08/2008 01:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Because my book is taking so freaking long,,and because of more and more of my friends getting ripped off on rings I've decided to show some of the current best of the best superfake private purchase rings..Rings that with some ageing,messing around could pass as original!
Because of time restraints I'll have to do this a little at a time, photos when I have the chance..
Remember, we are talking about copies of good known patterns.
Orignals have histories with fine provenances such as period photos in wear,,direct family and or vet [German or US] acquisitions,,period advertisement,,honest confirmed ground dug.
Lets start with this pattern/design...This is a fairly common skull ring.
Usually marked with silver content of 835.. If your lucky enough to inspect one in hand, also try to get a good photo for your files as there are some very slight varients.
They were well made pieces. Even a worn example you should be able to see that it had good details and was finished well.
*Over the weekend I'll post a photo of an actual original example..
This is a wartime period advertisement for the ring we'll be featuring:
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#50042
02/08/2008 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
an original. In 835 silver.
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#50043
02/08/2008 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
inside..I've seen many of these type pattern. so far all the originals have had this look to the inside..
* Any member with a good one that has a solid back?
something interesting. I've had this ring since 1972. A bring back from an Great Uncle,a veteran. Last I looked at it was about 6 months ago. It was fine. Today the band is split!!
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#50044
02/09/2008 12:19 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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G. would you like me to send you the "R. Dolp" ring? I bought it from Craig and it's pretty close except for the first initial...I wear it most every day. Mark 
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#50045
02/09/2008 01:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,414
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,414 |
Nice ring G. did you see the private purchase ring I tried to post with the oak leaves and acorns on sides? period or copy? thanx, paul
In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944
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#50046
02/09/2008 02:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
* Mark, Thanks, but this is for private purchase rings. Besides, I think Craig will surely cover that one in his fake section [I hope]. *Mann, On your post I couldn't get the photo to open. Please start a topic on it for some opinions. * O.K., back to this totenkopf ring...This photo of an original points out in RED lines that are deep on originals. The lines around band go almost completely to the back of band. In GREEN, a knob that is often left off on some fakes.. In Blue,,there is a slight dip first then a slight upward curl on the leaf/design. Most copies are very flat here, also shallow overall...
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#50047
02/09/2008 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Not wanting to waste silver,,on some patterns you'll see wide bands,,but they'll be thin..
Notice on this original a nice thin band,, both sides proportioned/symmetrical as possible to one another.
Later, we'll see some terrible fakes of this exact ring, as well as good fakes, and a sneak peak at a superfake...
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#50048
02/10/2008 05:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
O.K. , now for a few different degrees of reproductions..
1st one.. The common eBay horrible fake..
Poor overall quality,,pock marks,,dots,,no detail,,mising knob,,shallow design,,a real POS..
a2.jpg (41.07 KB, 2064 downloads)
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#50049
02/10/2008 06:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
~ next this 2nd example..
Much better. BUT, still wouldn't fool many with a little experience and if you just look hard. The knob is almost there,but flat and mushy,,no definition
Still a shallow design,,loaded with pock marks/faults.. These rings are mostly advertised as 'Ground Dug'. They almost look the part,,but the condition is not from being in the ground,,its from being poorly cast...
Next, I'll search for a photo of a superfake of this pattern..
a4.jpg (63.26 KB, 2048 downloads)
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#50050
02/11/2008 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Well, this is the only photo I've been able to find on the superfake of this pattern so far. I have handled 2. They are of very good quality! I would have liked to buy one for reference but just too dammed expensive and it wouldn't leave me much money for originals if I keep buying the fakes to check out  Gone are the fault lines, pitting, pock marks! *The problems to look out for,,the band is too thick,,knob is on the flat side,,teeth aren't as detailed,,band design is on the shallow side too,.. On one of the superfakes the lines on the back of the band were absent.. The silver on both I've seen looked to be 925,sterling. They don't have that nice dark patina that 800 or 835 get. Next up ,,maybe the 'Edelweiss' ring,,or,, a5.jpg (89.8 KB, 2026 downloads)
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#50051
02/12/2008 04:26 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
O.k.!!! Had a member who wishes to remain anonymous email me a photo of a superfake of this pattern!.. A nice one that they put some sort of ageing chemical on it to darken it.. * notice ~,,flat leaf,,no knob,,flat teeth,,shallow overall detail.. Thanks for the photo!! appreciate it. 
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#50052
02/13/2008 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
O.K. , lets move to another.
This is a well known German WW2 pattern. Many with good provenance, and many period advertisements.
A Luftwaffe eagle ring:
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#50053
02/13/2008 08:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Next, an original..
Some examples will have a gilt panel the eagle is on.
Marked 835, well made, good quality and detail. Remember, this is a small ring,even in worn condition you can still make out the eagles eye!
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#50054
02/13/2008 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Another original.This one in its original box. I like to call it an officers version. Humor me .. Not marked but in hand you can see its a better grade of silver. A more solid ring/design overall and even better detail..
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#50055
02/13/2008 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
here you can see the band differences:
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#50056
02/13/2008 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Both rings are of good quality but in wartime conservation mode both have thin bands:
after this I'll find various degrees of reproductions..
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#50057
02/16/2008 04:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
So, lets start off with this copy. No superfake here!.
Appears to be the common 'Sterling' [925]. Left side you can see some Dots and pin holes from bad casting. No detail what so ever!
Just an overall POS that thankfully shouldn't fool anyone:
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#50058
02/17/2008 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Here's another. From the auction house we all used to love! This one is really trying.
A little better detail. You can start to see the eagles eye and beak, tail feathers and the swastika is formed better...
Look again at the originals,this is still a far cry from them. Shallow details, pitting and mushy,,just another copy...
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#50059
03/08/2008 04:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
O.k. , things are slow so lets move on to another good well known parttern ring that there are now excellent fakes of..
The 'Edelweissring'.. A 'semi' official ring!
Originals can sometimes have excellent provenance.
There were actually award documents made for the ring.
There has been one case where the ring was listed on the awards page of a Soldbuch.
I've seen them listed on death cards also!
Well made, rings. Originals have all so far been a heavy solid silver. Notice the number 1 at the bottom of the flower. These rings were exclusive for members of the 1st Gebirgs Division.
Here's a well worn original example:
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#50060
03/08/2008 04:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Here's another original.This one in very good condition.. There will be slight variants,,nothing major different. Again, notice the number one...
More later.
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#50061
03/08/2008 10:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,064
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,064 |
Great info Gaspare, even if one dosnt collect rings its very useful and interesting!,thanks for your time to post,,,,,,,
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#50062
03/09/2008 02:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,424 Likes: 61
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,424 Likes: 61 |
Yeh Gaspare, its nice info.  Many thx !!!
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#50063
03/09/2008 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Many thanks guys....
*Please, if any members have a original of a ring and have a very good copy or even photos of a good copy please post them here...
Here is the 'superfake' of the Edilw ring! This is a scary good fake! One of the best fakes out there.. I had the chance to see the copy in hand. When you look closely at it ,especially around by the # 1 you can see its a little flat and mushy. Overall not as deep. The backlground design/pebbling also is not right.
The auction photos are usually played with and darkened as the silver used in the ring is probably 'Sterling' [925] and you can see the difference from the 800 or 835 of the original..
This photo from eBay is from a seller who admits its a good copy of an original and its sold as a fake! But it has already started showing up as original so be careful!
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#50064
03/09/2008 04:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,802 Likes: 13
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,802 Likes: 13 |
Gaspare, many thanks for this thread and the knowledge and effort that have gone into it.
Regards, --dj--Joe
<BR>
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#50065
03/22/2008 03:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
,,,your welcome guys,,my pleasure..
Going back a ring to the Luft...
Here's the new 'superfake'.. It is a better copy..The eye and beak look pretty good,,the swastika is formed better...
BUT, the details still aren't there ,,,yet. The claws aren't really there,,border design still poor. It appears to be sterling,and too thick of a band..
So, they are still trying to get over on us ,,and we just got to be ever diligent in exposing the faults!
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#50066
03/22/2008 08:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59 |
Here is one from a vet group I bought several years ago.Were these worn by SS troops or anyone who felt like it? It's marked 835 inside the band.
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#50067
03/22/2008 08:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59 |
the mark
dh.jpg (76.16 KB, 1050 downloads)
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#50068
03/22/2008 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59 |
PS. I believe the above is an original example.
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#50069
03/22/2008 07:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
~ the ring that opened the topic! Nutmeg,,from these photos I believe your example is a good one.. Sure,SS soldiers could have wore it.. Actually, anyone with the cash could buy and wear such a ring.. Money was hard to come by pre war and wartime so it wasn't bought as a goof or to waste.. Most were bought by the soldiers themselves. Many were bought by wifes or other family members for a soldier as a present. These skull rings were popular with SS, Panzer and the HJ,,,and really there are photos of all the 4 main branches of service [Heer,Luft.,KM,SS] wearing skull rings.. Also in many of the period magazines for the armed services and para-military organizations you'll occasionally find advertisements for such pieces... The victors of the war [the Allies] were also fond of these rings and took many back home to wear and/or show off to friends and family,,, I can hear it now,,," I took this off a SS General myself!"
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#50070
03/22/2008 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 59 |
Like every SA dagger and Youth knife is an SS dagger! 
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#50071
03/27/2008 04:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Next,,,something weird,,
*'Superfake ground dug!'*
I'll get something together I've just seen and post soon........
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#50072
04/02/2008 03:25 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
First, the ring..This is a Zinc example. They came in Silver also,and brass with silver wash and a weird alloy pot metal..
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#50073
04/02/2008 03:35 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
A popular and well known pattern..Often offered with 'Gems' in the eyes [Glass]..
This pattern as seen always has that distinctive nose,,fine lines between the head and crossed bones,,and cranial fissures [crack in head at top]..
If you look closely around the rims of the eyes on this zinc example above you'll see 2 maybe 3 dots.. These dots were used to peen over the 'Gem' eyes to keep them in place..
Here's a period advertisement,,,this one offered with Gems in the eyes..
*In a couple of days we'll see some good fakes and a really good Ground Dug fake..
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#50074
04/14/2008 03:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
O.K. , we're going to see now 2 fakes of the 'Ground dug' kind.
This ring is difficult to reproduce well in good condition forum. Originals were usually a weird alloy and later moving on to zinc late war..Whatever its time period of production during the war its always a ring with good detail, thin band, finished off fairly well.
So whats been appearing is 'ground dug' fakes.. The scam is that they were found at Stalingrad digs, Kharkov, Demjansk digs etc. They are so decrepid,so worn,eaten up they are almost impossible to distinguish from originals.
This 'dug' example was sold a few times. The seller takes a break for 6 months or so then starts to sell again. This fake is let down by its missing details and shallow detail. Unless it a few dollars its best to avoid rings that look like this:
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#50075
04/14/2008 03:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Here's another of this pattern supposedly from Stalingrad. It is a fake. Missing / poor details hid by false ageing, drops of acid etc..
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#50076
04/14/2008 03:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
also let down by its thick band,,,this thing is a mess. BUT still can fetch upwards of $200.! on a good day on eBay!!
Stay away,save your money.............
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#50077
04/15/2008 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,816 Likes: 55
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,816 Likes: 55 |
Thanks for taking the time, showing all the very nice good rings and the fakes Gaspare.
Here you buy only the dealer's story (and a bit material).
I's the first fake ground dug of this kind I ever have seen.
Imo the "heavily corroded holes" (the one above and two down ) have more or less the same cut out shape and size, treated with acid .
Originaly corroded it would be more irrigular in this grade of corrosion, but then it would disattrrack the ring.
This last one is really an interesting fake.
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#50078
04/15/2008 01:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
Very interesting!
We all learn from your knowledge!
Thanks G.!
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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#50079
04/15/2008 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Ground dug fakes appeared as soon as the Soviet Union broke up! Early 1990s there were still plenty of origials coming up from the ground. By the mid / late 1990s you were seeing more fake dug rings than originals! Now I'd hardly trust any unless I dug them myself, or they had some sort of provenence from someone I trust.
I have a small section in my 'Fakes, Frauds and Postwar' chapter of my book for 'Ground Dug' fakes...
Here are a few test shots..
This is a typical bad reproduction from a few years ago.
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#50080
04/15/2008 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Now, this is the SAME ring..
I made a ageing solution from chemicals found in my gararge....
This is the same ring after one treatment..
Took all of 5 min. total... It can be dipped again and again for a more aged, ground dug effect..
You can even put a drop of battery acid on it and it'd look like one of the Stalingrad rings..
*Be suspicious of ANY ground dug ring:
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#50081
04/16/2008 06:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
Hahaha!
Yes - some sulfur makes nearly any metall old
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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#50082
04/16/2008 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,816 Likes: 55
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,816 Likes: 55 |
Gaspare and Odal, indeed with some ingredients you can make all colors of the rainbow. A problem in general is that if you mention everything you see why a ring is good or bad (Imo), you help the collectors and the fakers. Still....the one who love rings, the collectors! , will take more time and have more love and feeling for it , will see the difference. If not.... the price will help you to watch out. Here a ring from a private dealer, who mentions that it is a repro.
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#50083
04/16/2008 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
you are right benten - sorry :-(
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
guys another to watch out for.. this one pretty good. This is a fake. A friend in CA. bough it a couple weeks ago. As soon as he bought it the same seller put another on auction. It appears he has a few!  My friend who knows his antique jewelry knew it was fake as soon as it was in his hand. It has the usual problems, incorrect manufacture, poor cast, pitting and faults all over it,etc. Be careful out there guys! And please, any real good fakes feel free to add on here!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
WARNING!
Here is a dam good fake. This seller is very smart and usually only lets one go at a time, holds back then releases again on a different venue.
Photos are bad but good enough to put in your files for ID.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,816 Likes: 55
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,816 Likes: 55 |
Gaspare BINGO....You are 100% right...... I've asked this seller often for more info and pics... he never was there and I would get them later... as his emloyeé stated. I Never got any info or extra pics.!!! So, I followed his announcements for rings "I got interested". He has an own jewelers workplace ....and sometimes he let us know that he makes new rings,replicas, ...but often NOT. ;Imo certainly not too bad made... so be here warned for the "real ones" as Gaspare already mentioned. How does it feel to sell something that is not OK???...I even do not want to know. For me it is NOT right. Here is theoriginal announcement copied from ebay from the ring picted above... " *Rarität ! antiker Wüstenkrieg Tunis Ring Palme Unikat".......... so "old and rare".....    ( here I need all colors of the icons...) Benten 
Last edited by benten; 01/01/2011 06:19 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 489
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 489 |
is this a two piece ring ?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Well, some are, some aren't but have the look.
The 1st gen. copies were 2 piece. Then someone made a copy of it and now there are also 1 piece copies!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
NEW copy for 2011,,for me this is the first time I've seen a copy of this rare ring! It's done pretty good so be extreamly careful!!
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
??
Should this ring be a kind of "Saardank"-ring?
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Yes, the SAARDANK ring,,awarded in a sliver and gold .. No exact details other than knowing for sure there were official award documents. All my research has turned up is that the rings could have been awared to civilians who donated large amounts of money to the 3rd reich on re claiming the Saar..
This is the first copy I've ever seen of the ring...
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,371 Likes: 1 |
Yes, my first view of a copy of this pattern too.
It looks for me as it is an eastern european work and i think i know the atelier? where this ring come from.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Well these are now being test offered on CZ Rep auctions....
Hard to say exactly where the fakes come from.. I remember in the early /mid 1990's,,,there were many very good fakes appearing in Ukraine. But they were being made in Latvia, brought by train into Ukraine and spread to the dishonest dealers and diggers!
Last edited by Gaspare; 05/21/2011 05:14 AM.
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Here another fake.... But placed in a beautiful box.
Benten
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Ring bad, original box very good 
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interesting is the stamped in looking 800 content!. And 'engraving' done with a toothpick on the wax. . Box IS an oldie, very desirable for a jewelry collector..
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The box is fancy,,probably for either a wedding ring or engagement ring.. [assuming the box top is not damaged.]. .
I could see a collector that really wanting it paying $50 to $100 for it..
Last edited by Gaspare; 06/09/2011 05:08 AM.
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heres a really good fake..With some aging work or ground dug appearance it might be a hard tell from photos..
Be careful!
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Here's another ebay ring...is this one fake as well? Seems like the price is too low for "ultra rare", and no one's bought it yet. < http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRA-RARE-ELITE-HON...=item3a6909c5d5>
Von zwei Übeln wählt man besser das, was man schon kennt.
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I'm always suspicious when there is wear like that in the inner band.. Would have been good to see some nice photos..
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here's another very good fake,,with a twist! They made a copy of a worn/defaced ring.. We have seen this ring before..
1.jpg (59.45 KB, 750 downloads) 2.jpg (60.97 KB, 748 downloads) 3.jpg (86.05 KB, 751 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 10/26/2011 05:46 AM.
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another very good fake of a hard to get pattern..
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Here an other dagerous fake!
In the moment in thisauction - for selling as a fake.
Be careful in this pattern!
http://www.militaria321.com/auktion/5995356/Ring-Flugzeugf%C3%BChrer-Offiziere-mit-Silberstemplung-%22800%22
And here the pics from theauction:
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Gaspare,these photos are from a recent auction, unfortunately pics of the back and inside were not included. You expressed your doubts about this ring but it has some good qualities compared to the ring that started this thread. Is it an early reproduction?
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dr. ,,,Still too hard to say from the photos,,they do some magnificent work with fake aging and ground dug look..
unless you know the seller and they have a good return policy,
- When in doubt leave it out-
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Currently on Ebay are these rings, this seller is making the finest 'super-fakes' to date IMO. This one is a well known pattern, usually brass with silver wash, never stamped?, skull affixed to band seperate with rivet. This one is solid silver with tanning, has had the skull soldered on, and the stamp is poor on the outside of the band.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/STALINGRAD-RELIC...=item3a6f35cc3c
Last edited by svenga; 01/15/2012 06:29 PM.
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want to show a real nearly "super" made fake.
Take care of this one:
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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A SuperFake that's super dangerous!..
Many beginning ring collectors will be fooled by this one.. IF your not sure about any 3rd reich ring / jewelry please always ask here.
We have a great international bunch of jewelry collectors here that are always willing to help so ask!
Odal, thanks for investigating and posting!
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In the moment there is again a dangerous fake around.
Made from, i think so, a brass-alloy
Be careful!
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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very old pattern band,, newer skull,,in brass,, superfake is right,,,dangerous..
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Someone is really trying! Who do you think is doing this and from where? Thanks for sharing this odal.
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Had a report a few years ago from a friend in Russia that the East Europeans are starting to make them in brass.
Mainly for 2 reasons,,one, the rising price of silver, two, info they read here! By now other countries are following their lead..
ALL the forum sites are the best intel for counterfeiters there is!
We all work hard and sometimes don't always post the best of photos and occasionally hold back a small tidbit..
Dagger guys have their subject area down pretty good,, the medal & badge guys I really feel sorry for,,,and SS cloth,,no hope for the beginner collector anymore... But we're all still here and around. Its a good safe interesting hobby, just do some research, take a min. before you jump, and use your common sense..
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Gaspare,
Truer words have never been spoken ...
"Dagger guys have their subject area down pretty good,, the medal & badge guys I really feel sorry for,,,and SS cloth,,no hope for the beginner collector anymore... But we're all still here and around. Its a good safe interesting hobby, just do some research, take a min. before you jump, and use your common sense.."
... and they can't be repeated too often!
Best!
Bill
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Last edited by odal; 07/23/2012 07:33 PM.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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, when it rains it pours! ha ha..
Here it is in its bad ******** glory:
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Great info and pics Gentlemen.however,it still makes my stomach hurt.On that note I shall have a beer to calm my nerves!
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Found a fake of this known pattern. It is sold as fake. Of course we see pock marks all over the ring. The blackening also is not really the correct type. But - with a little polishing and aging, this ring would be a hard to handle fake. The sides, the leaves, the knobs are correct, the backside looks like on the original rings......
That makes my stomach hurt a lot....
Last edited by Wolf100; 07/26/2013 08:40 PM.
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well, we haven't had a SuperFake in a while.. Make no mistake,,this is a copy,,and a dam good one. A real Suoerfake! And, worst of all, it comes with a cert.of authenticity!!
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�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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and again we haven't had any in a while,,,So..
2 patterns. These aren't really SuperFakes,,they are not that good!,,but,,with a little work, some embellishments, engraving, and some good ageing etc. these could cause a problem. Beware!!
fk.jpg (86.06 KB, 449 downloads)
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1 member likes this:
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have a new SuperFake,,or really a SuperFantasy ring..
This has been selling around on German eBay here and there.
The band is a very old pattern from WW1 and Freikorp era. The round cartouche is from the West Wall bracelets that most collectors say are postwar.
I have one of the bracelets. It's a nice piece, the clasp attachment appears new / modern type and has no age patina to it at all. Actually none of them do,,they all appear new and in mintish condition.
Getting back to the ring,,so what many counterfeiters do to get the most out of their design is to use it on whatever they can.. Bracelets, cufflinks, sticpins, and rings. Don't invest in this piece!!
nw.jpg (106.75 KB, 396 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 06/06/2015 01:11 AM.
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another SuperFake..
A popular ring. Authentics with a nice wide band,,finely polished inner. A separately applied hollow skull.
The counterfeit:
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this ring recently appeared on another forum. The owner was quite adamant that it was authentic!
The owner then posted more photos which was the tell for us..
It is a one piece copy,,made to appear to be 2 piece but certainly not.
Also on the last photo there is another problem that we didn't mention on the other forum but right there ,,can anyone spot it out?
Last edited by Gaspare; 06/06/2015 01:31 AM.
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Here's a super awful. Please note there's actually a join seam in the back because someone wanted it sized, presumably to wear?? And I tried to get the markings inside...one says, get this I hope u can read it "rzm" (no kidding) and an "800" beneath it...lol (and if anyone would like the privilege of owning it, please pm me;)
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I think the blobs on the side are supposed to be sniper badges.
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d,nt know if this can be called a super fake, I will let you
decide. its an ss ring.someone has expertly joined it on the
shoulders, for what reason I do not know
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usual encounterd fake ss ring of this style. notice the
runes are different
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pretty good fakes/fantasies... The 2nd one has been around at least since 1970..
Thanks for posting...
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Also very dangerous fake
PART 1
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Yeah, dangerous, but cast without doubts
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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I've got a pic of that original somewhere here except no stones in eyes. Well marked but the skull is crushed as its hollow.
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yes, nicely done! Some of the new guys will be getting burned on this especially with some good artificial ageing! Be careful guys!!!
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I love this thread. Keep up the goof information.
Natural Born American Citizen
American Patriot
U.S. Army Vet. 1969-'71 Spc.5 Field Artillery Crewman
Sworn by oath to support and defend the "CONSTITUTION" of the United States against all enemies, "FOREIGN" and "DOMESTIC"!
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That's should be "Good" information. 😀
Natural Born American Citizen
American Patriot
U.S. Army Vet. 1969-'71 Spc.5 Field Artillery Crewman
Sworn by oath to support and defend the "CONSTITUTION" of the United States against all enemies, "FOREIGN" and "DOMESTIC"!
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this ring recently appeared on another forum. The owner was quite adamant that it was authentic!
The owner then posted more photos which was the tell for us..
It is a one piece copy,,made to appear to be 2 piece but certainly not.
Also on the last photo there is another problem that we didn't mention on the other forum but right there ,,can anyone spot it out? You mean the casting ball/bubble in the right eye socket?
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Sure, the skull is all wrong... fault lines, pits...but Wow, that one sure looks two-piece from here!
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want to show a real nearly "super" made fake.
Take care of this one: WOW, indeed! HOW can you tell on this one? What are the give-aways?!
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want to show a real nearly "super" made fake.
Take care of this one: WOW, indeed! HOW can you tell on this one? What are the give-aways?! All over very little pitting ans casting balls, not real visible on this not so good pics. For me one of the best fakes of this real often faked pattern
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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want to show a real nearly "super" made fake.
Take care of this one: WOW, indeed! HOW can you tell on this one? What are the give-aways?! All over very little pitting ans casting balls, not real visible on this not so good pics. For me one of the best fakes of this real often faked pattern Wow yeah I guess you can really call that one a SUPER DOOPER fake, LOL! :-D
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I wonder what your esteemed opinions are on this example? Out of sheer curiosity... would this be a super-fake repro or a genuine period-piece..? I'd be very interested in Gaspare's opinion, and of course Odal's, and any of the other experts here...
Thanks so much,
Mark
Last edited by Mark4321; 03/17/2016 10:44 AM.
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That's a period pattern mark ein zwei or even drei schwinge on cartouche. Heavily reproduced tho. Got a pic of the back and seam? look in the threads should be a pic of schwinge patterns. Yellow corresponds to flight personnel like pilots and paratroops I believe
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That's a period pattern mark ein zwei or even drei schwinge on cartouche. Heavily reproduced tho. Got a pic of the back and seam? look in the threads should be a pic of schwinge patterns. Yellow corresponds to flight personnel like pilots and paratroops I believe OK thanks: it's not my ring, this pic is from a facebook page. Odal was already saying there that he thought the enamel is slightly on the light side for a period ring... that's why I wanted to ask here, see what you guys have to say, maybe learn something more about these rings and how to recognize their fakes... Thanks Byzanti, Mark
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Agree w odal that the enamel is pretty bright
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this pattern is expertly reproduced for a while now.. Good photos a must,,rear, inner band, hallmark, birds eye. Strange right that we only/usually see the 3 gull rank! 
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Wink wink 3 gull paratroop... Right, why make a boring luft helper ring if u can have a pilot!
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What do different wings stand for, 1 wing, luft helper? And 3 wings pilot? What about 2 wings...?
Sory but I know nothing at all about the LW rings yet... that's why I posted that pic here...
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No, I was just joking- but they're enlisted ranks. One gull is a private 2 is pfc 3 is basically a corporal obergefreiter is the rank... But yellow were flight crew paratroop some ground crew too I think.
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No, I was just joking- but they're enlisted ranks. One gull is a private 2 is pfc 3 is basically a corporal obergefreiter is the rank... But yellow were flight crew paratroop some ground crew too I think. OK very cool, thanks a lot for the info! :-)
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https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffenfarben_der_Luftwaffe_%281935%E2%80%931945%29
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffenfarben_der_Luftwaffe_%281935%E2%80%931945%29 OSM, thanks Odal!
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I see we both can't sleep  Yes, this has been out for a while now.. Get it worn a bit,,throw in a old period box and it'll fool most.. Buyer beware!!, thanks for posting!!
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Pretty well made, this, no? :-)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Org-Freikorps-Ring-Etui-/131879517500?hash=item1eb4a1bd3c:g:E0EAAOSwIgNXilIo
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no result with this link...sorry
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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I'm gonna start adding the ones I see around that are fakes that I keep seeing people buy. Here's a variation on the smashed skull/smiling skull repop that's just nicht gut in every way. Avoid! A real smashed/smiling skull is a piece of art. The two I have are among my absolute favorites.
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Why is it called 'smashed skull'?
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Ah well this ones a fake of course but honestly that's what G calls it--- largely because the thin hollow (attached) skull is often smashed in or dented in just due to wear. Finding one intact is rare, I have one of each example... Obviously other patterns can be "smashed" due to the construction of course, I know I have at least one other like that- but I suppose that this pattern in particular is much more often found smushed in to borrow from Gaspares description, than the others
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
here's a 'Smashed Skull'.. Rarely do you see a mint example. The skull is hollow and a thin gage silver and usually smashed..
Mike this copy you show [Skull & Bones] is the 'Degner ad skull'. That's a good copy ,,a fine wearer!
Last edited by Gaspare; 09/19/2016 05:19 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935 Likes: 31
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,935 Likes: 31 |
O yea that is the degner ad skull! Never realized how similar they were really- seen a lot of those as repro-
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Ah OK thanks all, now I know! :-)
Mark
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Here's a WW1 SuperFake....
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
collectors are buying WW1 rings lately because of the shortage of good WW2 rings.. Here's the inner shot.. Everything wrong with it for a WW1 ring.
and remember,,they can / and do put emblems and unit numbers on the shoulderboard as well as change it to any color they want..
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
We were talking about Tank Tread rings on another topic. Just want to post these 2 SuperFakes wide band/tank tread rings.. Careful because with some expert ageing these 2 can cause some big trouble. Also goes to show that rings with 'Gems' in the eyes are usually authentic. These 'Ruby' eyes are fake as the ring..
They've been on some of the German auction sites but not much in the US and around that I've seen so again,,be careful!!
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,093 Likes: 99 |
Good information, Gaspare,
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Dave
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Well this pattern certainly qualifies! A good known pattern..
These are [for now] being sold as 'Reproduction'.
Some aging and the right hallmark and this will be down right dangerous!
Beware:
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35 |
We were talking about Tank Tread rings on another topic. Just want to post these 2 SuperFakes wide band/tank tread rings.. Careful because with some expert ageing these 2 can cause some big trouble. Also goes to show that rings with 'Gems' in the eyes are usually authentic. These 'Ruby' eyes are fake as the ring..
They've been on some of the German auction sites but not much in the US and around that I've seen so again,,be careful!! Hello G., first, thank you for posting these very nice repro. By the pics, I assume they are one piece made?..am I right ? Ric
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
they could be cast.. I've tried to contact the seller but get no answer.... It's real nice and clean and with good finishing...
Now with laser scanning etc. a real ring could be scanned and a die could be produced from it! Not 100% sure yet.. Still some work to do . As soon as I know I will post here.. In the meanwhile,,those purchasing this pattern must be very careful.!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Bumping this to the top.. Had a email asking me about this WestFront ring .
The exact ring, exact photos.. Now being sold as authentic but the seller I'm pretty sure is different. The member saw it on German eBay,,then saw 2 more and emailed me..
A dangerous reproduction. I wish at the time I had some extra money as I would have bought one to study.. But as of now a pattern we'll always have to have a lot of scrutiny about!!.. Be careful!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
yes, that WestFront ring above is truly a SuperFake...
Here is one that barely qualifies.. From the outside appearance it looks kind of good. Maybe some ageing, wear etc. and it would fool a few..
A version of a 'Tank Tread' ring.. Even with the smooth band its still called that. They have a wide band, separate skull soldered on. Sizing seam can be to rear of band or in front.
z5.jpg (78.87 KB, 208 downloads)
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
So, the outer looks kinda good..
Inner band -
Here is the big tells:
Band to thick.
no seam,
skull one piece to band,
poorly finished inner band.
- an overall cast postwar piece...
z4.jpg (9.14 KB, 207 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/07/2020 03:09 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
this going in the Superfakes.... To the newer collectors they'll see the period adverts and a couple rings and figure this good..
- It's not,, never in silver.. Poor , mushy, waxy, detail, casting flaw on inside,, poor finished inner band,,a bit too thick... leave these silver ones for someone else...
SF.jpg (65.31 KB, 182 downloads)
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35 |
Hello,
here's a LW repro ring that in my opinion well deserves this Gallery.
Of course if you compare it with an ALPACCA one original, repro is a bit smaller as expected.
Please note fakers didn't care erasing ALPACCA marking, before adding 800 silver content marking.......and the well known "pearls" left by casting process.
Ric
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1 member likes this:
Stephen |
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35 |
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35 |
Alpacca marking still left
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 598 Likes: 35 |
800 silver content marking added
Last edited by Ric Ferrari; 06/15/2022 11:42 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
All in all yes, a SuperFake .. IF, if they did a little bit more after production work it would be even harder to determine one of these. But then it does not become worth it . Or made to appear ground dug..
- But a dangerous copy.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 451 Likes: 36
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 451 Likes: 36 |
Silver Alpacca? That's a new one. Thanks for posting.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
Haven't looked at this topic in a long while!! These SuperFakes are really good some of them would still fool many of us.. So I'm adding the U-Boat ring. It has its own topic but it really needs to be warned about,,,the link. Even has a period advert to add provanance!  https://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=358050#Post358050This is dangerous.. Most of ring collectors are short on KM rings so this just might make you grab and go maybe too quick! Its a nice looking ring,,,too nice!
Last edited by Gaspare; 05/14/2023 12:19 AM.
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