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Joined: Oct 2009
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Hello,
I'm new to this forum and have a question about this bayonet. It's mint which makes me wonder about originality, also the theater style grips are a new one on me? Anyone else ever see this done? Approx. value if authentic? Any comments would be appreciated. I'm not even sure what model it is? I have a few K98's, and US M4's, which is how I got interested in bayonets.
Thanks R/H

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more pics coming

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it looks almost like a fabric swastika, under plexi-glass grips

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that should have been this pic

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well, the blade & scabbard are mint.

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Your piece is SG98nA from WW1 period, later probably nickled and maybe by GIs added plexi grips, the swastika is not correct. best regards,Andy

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very interesting thanks for sharing!


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Thanks for the info, it is "different"! I'm wondering still...do you think the grips were done by a German soldier who maybe saw a WWII theater type knife & copied it? Those are the only handles I've ever seen, done in plexi-glass. Or a post war G.I. trying to increase collector interest? I know I'm asking for speculation, at best...but from guy's who have seen many of these (& other) bayonets, have any like this been seen? or is it very uncommon? does it hurt/help value? I'm thinking of selling it but...whats it worth? I got it as a gift w/a few other WWII items when a relative died about 15 yrs. ago. Any help is appreciated, comments, opinions, whatever!
Thanks again, R/H

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Hello, is there any marking on blade spine or ricasso or pommel, one possibility is leave it so as a GIs upgrade, other possibility is return to a dress configuration and replace grips, the dress pieces goes about 100 US? You should look to Ebay for comparing.best regards,Andy

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Hello Roadhog. I will do my best to answer your query.

The problem with bayos modified in such a way is that there is almost no way to prove whether or not it was done by a German soldier during wartime or done yesterday by "bubba," unless there was some shop out there that was documented modifying and selling these bayos to US soldiers on occupation duty, or something to that effect (which I highly doubt). That type of construction (using plexiglass grips and putting something under the grips) was certainly popular during the WWII era, but that's not enough to constitute proof of origin or time frame.

The bayonet itself, in my opinion, appears to be one of the private purchase S98s as opposed to an issue S98 later plated. I base this on what looks like a lack of markings. Privately Purchased S98s are quite common.

As for the value or desirability, I'm afraid most will see the grip modification as damage, and as such the only value would be in the remaining original parts of the bayo. That it's an Imperial bayonet with 3rd Reich modifcations doesn't help either. You're looking at the $75-150 range for what's there, at least that would be my guess (though generally we all tend to shy away from giving people values for many reasons).


Here's to those who make what we collect worth collecting.

Bravo Troop, 1/7 CAV, 5th BCT, 1CD
OIF II, Al-Rashid, Baghdad, Iraq
GARRYOWEN!
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Thanks to all,
I really appreciate the time taken to explain your thoughts on my bayo. I'm still unclear why anyone would want to do this to an otherwise, really nice cond. item, when it obviously detracts from value...but as you stated, it's all just speculation, & will ultimately stay a mystery. I'm also assuming this type of item rarely if ever pops up, or if so...an experienced collector would try & put it back to original condition. There are no markings on it. I guess for the $75. or so it's worth, I may as well keep it and hope that someday they find a crate full of them hidden in a warehouse in Solingen, with documentation of course! Hey, if dreaming, dream big, right?
Cheers, R/H

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You're welcome, Roadhog. But remember to keep in mind that monetary value is just one aspect of bayonet collecting, or any collecting for that matter. The same bayo that may be worth $10 bucks to many may also be priceless to one. One of my most prized bayonets is a beatup Romanian AKM version Ak-47 bayonet captured in a raid in Baghdad against a high level insurgent, and given to me by my commander as a gift as he knew I collected bayonets. Another fellow soldier gave me the earlier Russian AK-47 variation too. These two bayos together wouldn't bring $30, even with the story behind them. And I wouldn't sell them for the world. They sit proudly along side bayonets worth thousands.

It may be that your modified Dress S98 was put together by "bubba" a few years back, but it's more likely that it was done by a Vet who brought it back. There's a history behind that bayonet worth far more than $75.

And perhaps what matters more than anything else is how YOU feel about it. If you like it, that's what really counts.

Sometimes, even often I would say, militaria collectors get so caught up in the investment aspect of these items that we forget why they're worth anything in the first place (I've been guilty of this too).


Here's to those who make what we collect worth collecting.

Bravo Troop, 1/7 CAV, 5th BCT, 1CD
OIF II, Al-Rashid, Baghdad, Iraq
GARRYOWEN!
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Very good point S98, I do find this one very interesting, and am hoping to find out whatever I can as time goes by or even maybe, see another similar, "modified" German bayonet. There doesn't seem to be many, (if any!) out there...but I'll keep looking! Thanks again for all your ( & everyone's) input.
Cheers, R/H

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Road Hog, I have seen everything from Hitler youth knives to bayonets with added Plexi-glass grips.Some added a little cartoon under the Plexi, others added symbols (such as yours, with what looks to be the remnant of a breast eagle's swastika and wreath.

Remember, these bayos are not rare, and there was literally hundreds of thousands of them to be had a war's end Possibly millions.

You do what you can to separate yours from the rest of the pack!!.

A German soldier would never do this.There were severe penalties for altering your issued equipment, and the ever present 'Der Speiss' hovering around to make sure that you were conforming to regulations.You will notice that in many pictures, they carry the little book around in which to write up the offender!

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Hello Doug (and everyone else).

I freely admit that my knowledge of 3rd Reich bayonets and the regulations regarding the wear of edged weapons is greatly limited in comparison to most here. Like you, I don't see a German soldier modifying this bayo in such a way. But I feel I should point out that this bayonet (albeit an Imperial-era seitengewehr) was a private purchase model, not issued, and I was under the impression that there really weren't any regulations regarding the wear of "dress" or "walking out" bayonets during the 3rd Reich. Obviously a lower enlisted soldier couldn't hang an officer's portepee off their bayonet, but I've been told that what type of extra-seitengewehr worn was up to the soldier in question. Is there any validity to this statement? My guess is that there's some validity, but the notion that a soldier could wear any extra-seitengewehr they chose is probably an oversimplification.

Imperial-era extra-seitengewehr are as varied as anyone could imagine (I'm fairly certain that, barring etched blades, there is far more variation seen in Imperial ES bayos than in 3rd Reich). Some regulations regarding seitengewehr wear were largely ignored: For instance (I cannot find the source at the moment), when officers were ordered to return their swords to the rear and replace them with 98/05 bayonets (in April 1915 if I remember correctly), officers put away their swords, but there are very few photos showing officers wearing the large S98/05s, either in the field or in the rear. Most officers preffered bayos based on the kurzes Seitengewehr 1898 design (kS98, the "k" in lower case as it is an adjective), which, having only been issued to small, prestige units (MGA, Sch, Luftschiffer, etc) thus were produced in relatively small numbers, and discontinued in 1915 in lieu of the S84/98 series, weren't available to most. They opted instead for privately purchased kS98s, and this eventually led to the kS98-style hilt becoming the standard of all German dress bayonets (and the unfortunate, confusing, and seemingly unreversable-yet-incorrect tendency of so many to refer to these extra-seitengewehr as "KS98s").

So if anyone could help me understand what the regulations or guidelines were regarding Extra Seitengewehr wear in the 3rd Reich, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!


Here's to those who make what we collect worth collecting.

Bravo Troop, 1/7 CAV, 5th BCT, 1CD
OIF II, Al-Rashid, Baghdad, Iraq
GARRYOWEN!

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