#43122
01/29/2010 11:41 PM
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OP
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Bought from a estate. The person I bought it from ,said that they thought it was Spanish american war. It reminds me of the fraternal swords, but iam not sure, the wide spread eagle throws me.Light traces of engraving on the blade.No maker mark. Anyone have an idea of what i have here and also the value?? thanks Bob
robert grant
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#43123
01/29/2010 11:42 PM
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OP
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robert grant
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#43124
01/29/2010 11:42 PM
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robert grant
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#43125
01/29/2010 11:43 PM
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OP
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robert grant
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#43126
01/29/2010 11:43 PM
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robert grant
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#43127
01/29/2010 11:44 PM
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robert grant
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#43128
01/30/2010 12:04 AM
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I see no regulation American sword that looks exacly as your. It is very similar to the 1834 Revenue cutter sword Ames made RCswords into the late 1800,s could be a similar model,the engraving should have a naval motif.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
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#43129
01/30/2010 12:15 AM
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I never saw on like that either.
If there is FOE on it anywhere, that is the "Fraternal Order of Eagles" and in which case the crossguard would make sense.
I heard there is a book out now on the fraternal swords, but I haven't seen it yet.
whatever it is, it's cool!
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#43130
01/30/2010 01:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Same here Bob: While I agree this is some type of fraternal sword I've never seen this particular pattern either. Jim
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#43131
01/30/2010 03:22 AM
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Zorro, I believe you are right. I have a Ames book and found one that is very similiar, except for the knightshead pommel. Maybe a variation!! thanks Bob
robert grant
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#43132
01/31/2010 04:23 AM
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Joined: May 2004
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Howdy Bob It is a 1832 US militia staff officers sword used through the American civil war. There are several variations of this sword. The scabbards from 1832 through 1860 were made primarily of metal. The knuckle guard is one or two chains that are usually broken or missing. It is a nice American civil war period sword. Steve
"Insanity is heriditary. You get it from your kids." Quote from Ronald Regans diary.
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#43133
01/31/2010 05:38 AM
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Posts: 3,025 Likes: 1
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Steve,
May I respectfully disagree.
You are correct in saying that there were in fact militia swords of the period that you stated and there being many variations to include chains from the handle to the cross guard however there are no regulation U.S. swords with elaborately and highly decorated scabbards as the sword in discussion not withstanding special order or presentation pieces.
Considering the above coupled together with the crude manufacture I lean toward 'fraternal or lodge' not any regulation U.S. pattern
In my opinion and again, respectfully,
John
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#43134
01/31/2010 02:24 PM
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Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Up till WW I swords were still considered weapons and therefore were built robust enough for actual field use. The light construction of this sword appears to preclude this type of use and my opinion remains that it is a fraternal sword. Jim
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#43135
01/31/2010 04:09 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 513
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Joined: May 2004
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Howdy John The blade in question does not have any faternal designs of any kind and you are right it is a presentation grade militia staff officers sword with a sharkskin and wire wrapped handle ( most were bone and sometimes ivory handles ), civil war period. The fittings were normally gold or silver plated which is usually worn off by now as the plating was thin at best on most models. If the blade was in hand it would be apparent that it is stout enough to fight with. This style was used to stab rather than slash. I have owned and handeled many of these including ones dedicated to Confederate and Union Officers from estates with photo images of the officer wearing the blade where the provenance would not be in question. You will find them marked and unmarked. I did training at The Smithsonian Museum in Washington D.C. and handeled many in the collection there that were named presentation swords several of them the exact same pattern. Enlisted models differ in the quality of the blade and usually have leather scabbards with metal fittings many were more suited for parade rather than battle as was much of the militia gear. The manufacture of the scabbard is comparable to the majority of the presentation type of sword from the civil war and before. Presentation patterns were never regulation. As mentioned before I have handeled, owned and sold many of them to American civil war collectors. Steve quote: Originally posted by John Pepera: Steve,
May I respectfully disagree.
You are correct in saying that there were in fact militia swords of the period that you stated and there being many variations to include chains from the handle to the cross guard however there are no regulation U.S. swords with elaborately and highly decorated scabbards as the sword in discussion not withstanding special order or presentation pieces.
Considering the above coupled together with the crude manufacture I lean toward 'fraternal or lodge' not any regulation U.S. pattern
In my opinion and again, respectfully,
John
"Insanity is heriditary. You get it from your kids." Quote from Ronald Regans diary.
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#43136
02/02/2010 01:37 AM
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Posts: 9,436
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OP
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Thanks for all of your opinions. I appreciate it. thanks Bob
robert grant
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#43137
02/02/2010 04:07 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 513
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Joined: May 2004
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You owe each of us a beverage of our choice. I like pinch bottle 20 year old Haig and Haig scotch. Steve
"Insanity is heriditary. You get it from your kids." Quote from Ronald Regans diary.
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#43138
02/02/2010 04:27 AM
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No problem. I will be at the SOS show.Steve, do you have any idea of the value?? thanks Bob
robert grant
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#43139
02/02/2010 11:20 PM
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Posts: 513
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Bob Honestly I do not know any more friend. I haven't kept track of American swords values.
"Insanity is heriditary. You get it from your kids." Quote from Ronald Regans diary.
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