Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#42514 04/14/2009 10:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
A friend has lent me a fake Gottlieb Hammesfahr. No scabbard.

So here goes. If anyone wants different pics, let me know. My camera has not been cooperating so not all shots are perfect.

Here it is. First impression is that he blade is brighter and more reflective than a real blade. It looks like one of those buffed and Simicromed beauties but the letters are not all blurred.

l.JPG (88.81 KB, 1922 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Another

m.JPG (92.02 KB, 1919 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Tip. Compared to that of a Hammesfahr SS dagger. See what I mean about brighter ?

h.JPG (66.29 KB, 1902 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Trademark

DSC00010.JPG (79.08 KB, 1904 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Tang. It appears to be a little larger than on real blades and has no tang marks at all. More signs of work on the tang than I like to see, but it did happen on real blades.

I conclude that the blade was forged, not cast, but from a different alloy than the real SA/SS blades.

Stay tuned. Tommorrow I will use the digital microscope and hope that the camera will behave.

j.JPG (71.93 KB, 1888 downloads)
1 member likes this: JHAF
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,380
Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,380
Hi Dave

Thanks for the pictures so we can learn a lot.
Do you have a picture of a real MM to compare?

Regards Jan

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 50
Online Content
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 50
Very interesting, Dave!

What about the grip? Is that an original?

It sure looks good on Pic 1.

Best greetings,

Herman


You never have enough HJ-knifes!
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Yes the grip is original but reworked. Crossguards too. In the meantime, I want to work through the blade with you.

Here are a couple more shots of the blade:

1.JPG (24.03 KB, 1752 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Closer. Mirror shiny

2.JPG (19.45 KB, 1733 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Two shots of the fake trademark. Note how fat the lines appear

3.JPG (79.08 KB, 1727 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Different light

4.JPG (32.5 KB, 1581 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Here is the trademark compared to a correct SS G.Hammesfahr trademark. There are NO real SA trademarks available. The fake is on the left

6.JPG (20.63 KB, 1578 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
A second view. See how the fake is just perfect but the lines seem a little too fat. Also a bit higher on the blade than the real SS

7.JPG (25.67 KB, 1560 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Remember that USB digital microscope I mentioned a few day ago ?

It really tells the story here. Here is a real close up

10.jpg (57.21 KB, 1556 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
And a closer up. Note the (too) perfect detail

13.jpg (53.08 KB, 1540 downloads)
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,436
Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,436
Great thread Dave - the fake mark looks a little too precise compared with the original.

Regards

Russ

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Some of the detail on the fake

11.jpg (58.07 KB, 1524 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Now, here is what the SS trademark looks like - the real deal

15.jpg (46.46 KB, 1515 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Under high magnification, you can see that acid etching was not perfect. Not nearly as perfect as the fakes Big Grin

16.jpg (61.92 KB, 1511 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Same applies to the rest of the trademark

20.jpg (50.83 KB, 1506 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Now the fake SA motto - 1

DSC00012.JPG (25.61 KB, 1462 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Middle

DSC00013.JPG (22.94 KB, 1452 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
End

DSC00014.JPG (27.83 KB, 1437 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Back to the Califone USB microscope.

Same as the trademark, so I won't put up endless shots. Here is the fake

m2.jpg (50.63 KB, 1429 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Same letter from a real SA. A Kober

m1.jpg (50.84 KB, 1429 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
I think you can see from this:

- The SA G. Hammesfahr is a fake

- At first glance it might pass but the blade is too shiny and the motto/trademark really nice.

- You need more advanced tools to check out your blades.

The scary part is that they are faking SA blades which are 25% of the cost of SS blades.

Stay tuned: The grip and crossguards in a day or so.

Anyone needing more pics speak up.

Dave

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 50
Online Content
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 50
Great analyses, Dave!

I look forward to see the rest of the dagger.

Best greetings,

Herman


You never have enough HJ-knifes!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 651
Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 651
FANTASTIC tread Dave Cool

Looks like i need to invest in a USB digital microscope

Are they on Ebay??


Regards
Carlos1
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 722
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 722
Likes: 1
Dave great detective work & very interesting to know about these fake blades Wink i,m glued to this thread........Regards Scott.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 180
Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 180
Thats very intresting and scary,, these fakes are so good , i think some credit has to go to mongo whos intricate exhamination of blades was shown on a similar thread,

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Now the grip. Genuine with a doubt, but reworked. The crossguards have also been buffed. Their surface looks like the "brushed metal" surface available on newer kitchen faucets.

g1.JPG (19.37 KB, 947 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
The contours are blurred

g2.JPG (33.35 KB, 942 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
There is either a fault in the wood or a repair

g3.JPG (15.65 KB, 942 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Different view

g6.JPG (18.63 KB, 938 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 801
I
Offline
I
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 801
Great job, Dave! A very educational thread! My respect!

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
The rune is OK

g7.JPG (18.11 KB, 935 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Reverse same as obverse. There is a barely visible "Om" gau mark

g4.JPG (29.14 KB, 932 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Crossguards are P.A. and are real but buffed with a brush or steel wool.

DSC00027.JPG (19.19 KB, 924 downloads)
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Dave Online Content OP
OP Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
That it.

The easy tell-tales are:

1. Blade too shiny
2. Maker's mark too perfect, even to the eye

I'll keep it for a day or two in case anyone wants other views.

Dave

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 8
Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 8
Very informative thread Dave well done
Sean


Regards Sean
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,539 SS Bayonets
1,760,306 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,777 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Hiddensee brooch
by benten - 03/24/2024 04:13 PM
Latest New Posts
F Dula with a twist
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 03/28/2024 09:29 PM
Personalized reproduction honor ring source?
by Simone - 03/28/2024 08:57 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/28/2024 06:18 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Gaspare - 03/28/2024 12:34 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 11:30 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,652
Posts328,708
Members7,501
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
13 members (The_Collector, Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), Documentalist, OWN, C. Wetzel-20609, benten, Simone, Mikee, Jonesy, Dave, Vern, Honestmike, Baz69), 353 guests, and 104 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5