#41457
01/11/2010 01:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717 Likes: 2
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OP
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717 Likes: 2 |
For Gebr.Heller, what is the difference between Schmalkalden and Marienthal? I have noticed SAs coming from Marienthal, only had Th Gau marks. I know Schmalkalden was in East Germany, was Marienthal close by? Can someone show me, the 2 Gebr.Heller logos, form these 2 areas? Thanks Larry
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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#41458
01/11/2010 08:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 801
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 801 |
Check this village on Google Maps
"Marienthal 36448 Schweina, Wartburgkreis, Thüringen"
You will see that numerous cities of SA dagger makers are located in this area of former Eastern Germany, e.g. Marienthal (Gebrüder Heller), Suhl (Haenel, Kober, Sauer), Zella-Mehlis (Melzer-Feller), Schmalkalden (Gebrüder Heller, Adolf Völker), Steinbach (all makers named Malsch, Simon), Brotterode (Neidhardt & Schmidt), Schweina (Reich)
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#41459
01/11/2010 10:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,292
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,292 |
These were 2 different factories in 2 different towns with 2 different Maker Marks.- may have had the same owners (Gebr Heller), but this is unsure. Mike
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#41460
01/11/2010 10:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 200
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 200 |
ivbaust, add Herges-Vogtei (Gottfried Mueller). It was also in kreis Schmalkalden being almost exactly between Brotterode and Schmalkalden. Apparently after the war, Herges absorbed the village of Vogtei and the area is known as Trusetal. Johnson mentions that Mueller produced daggers in a prison, but I can't find any reference to a prison nearby. There were several railroad workshops there.
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#41461
01/12/2010 11:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717 Likes: 2
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OP
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717 Likes: 2 |
Great information guys! I read some of Johnsons 8th reference book on factory locations, but I dont remember coming across this info. Thanks for shedding light on this for me. I am still researching my Gebr.Heller SA,, and I am sure I will have more questions on it later. I have noticed a greater quality standard with the East German makers. IMO the "Mom and Pop" shops produced good quality daggers. Best Larry
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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#41462
01/17/2010 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974 |
Heller brothers from Schmalkalden were not the same guys as Heller brothers from Marienthal. Common family names were nothing unusual amongst III Reich edged weapons makers (6 Weyersbergs, 7 Herders, several Linders, Voss and so on). Interesting enough is that Gebrüder Heller from Marienthal STAMPED their company name on SA blades, being the only one maker who used this way of applying the trademark on SA blades. The reason why they made this decision remains unknown and hard to understand when at the same time they did etch their "balloon man" logo on DLV/NSFK blades.
Schmalkalden and Marienthal SA daggers logos below.
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#41463
01/17/2010 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974 |
DLV dagger with etched balloon man logo.
GHM.jpg (74.91 KB, 92 downloads) DLV
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#41464
01/17/2010 11:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717 Likes: 2
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OP
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717 Likes: 2 |
quote: Picture of 777
Posted 17 January 2010 09:15 Hide Post
Heller brothers from Schmalkalden were not the same guys as Heller brothers from Marienthal. Common family names were nothing unusual amongst III Reich edged weapons makers (6 Weyersbergs, 7 Herders, several Linders, Voss and so on). Interesting enough is that Gebrüder Heller from Marienthal STAMPED their company name on SA blades, being the only one maker who used this way of applying the trademark on SA blades. The reason why they made this decision remains unknown and hard to understand when at the same time they did etch their "balloon man" logo on DLV/NSFK blades.
Schmalkalden and Marienthal SA daggers logos be
777 that is some intense research!! I was a little worried when I purchased My Gebr SA (in the right photo) that the cross guard did not belong to it. I appreciate your knowledge and effort. Just like here common names can be confusing. Thanks again Best regards Larry
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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#41465
01/18/2010 12:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,970
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,970 |
Hi 777, Gebr. Heller also etched their maker mark. nats
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#41466
01/18/2010 01:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,292
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,292 |
Pardon me but how do you KNOW that the pairs of Heller Brothers were not the same- I've been looking at this for 15 years and have not found such proof as yet- I agree it is unlikely but that is not proof-Mike
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