#41181
11/07/2009 11:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
Well get-em out folks!
This is my Krebs NCO sword.
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#41182
11/07/2009 11:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
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#41183
11/08/2009 12:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#41184
11/08/2009 12:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
And the mark.
John
TM.JPG (38.89 KB, 1538 downloads)
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#41185
11/08/2009 01:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
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#41186
11/08/2009 04:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
here are some beloved ones
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#41187
11/08/2009 04:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
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#41188
11/08/2009 12:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Hi, SS Officers sword, but not Ehrendegen Krebs marked. Best regards,
Tor-Helge
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#41189
11/08/2009 12:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Tor-Helge
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#41190
11/08/2009 12:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Unmarked Ehrendegen, nickelsilver with a little mix. If ever cleaned, it's a looong time ago. I love it when they show patina.
Cheers,
Tor-Helge
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#41191
11/08/2009 12:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Tor-Helge
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#41192
11/08/2009 12:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
What do you call it - Ferrel - the ring above the crossguard is in plated steel. The rest of the grip fittings are nickel.
Tor-Helge
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#41193
11/08/2009 12:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
I like the way the patina builds up... Last pic.
Best regards,
Tor-Helge
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#41194
11/08/2009 01:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
Love the untouched patina as 95% of all German daggers, swords have been cleaned up or messed with in some point in time. Very Nice examples! Oddly if one cleaned up a civil war sword it would drop the value by 50% or less.
Mine has the lovely greenish patina.
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#41195
11/08/2009 02:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,025 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,025 Likes: 1 |
I have one additional new born not yet in the family photo.
One is a Krebs, the others early nickel silver and unmarked.
My way of attaching the portepee so as not to stretch and put pressure on this nearly 75 year old material.
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#41196
11/08/2009 02:34 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
Tor's unmarked example that shows a combination of a steel ferrule and nickel hilt parts, is something that can be seen with an early degen. Like the M36 Chain dagger, the time frame of which we observe the manufacture of these initial production run degens comprised of all nickel parts, was very short. It's my belief that the combination of steel and nickel started showing up the latter part of 1936. I attribute this also to the fact that parts to put together these degens were being supplied by more than one vendor. Hence we see ferrules made from steel, pommel nuts too, and grip runes even made from aluminum, all while being matched with nickel hilt fittings.
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#41197
11/08/2009 06:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Here's some in my "South West Sword Stand" This was when I only had one example and it's the one in the back. I'll take some more pictures when I get a chance. Awesome dispay! John. Jim
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#41198
11/09/2009 04:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 70
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 70 |
HERE IS MINE,HOPE YOU LIKE.NO MAKER WITH SS # ON BLADE. JOE.
<img src=http://www.germandaggers.com/images/Vet-US.jpg>
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#41199
11/09/2009 04:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Here's a picture of my examples. Top to botton: Top: P D Krebs Middle: Unmarked example Bottom: Dachau Example Jim
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#41200
11/17/2009 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
Hi all , nice degens here , this is my contribution .
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#41201
11/17/2009 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
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#41202
11/17/2009 09:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
Trigger,
SS Officers sword, but not Ehrendegen? These are so called Ehrendegen.
Example Roehm Daggers are Ehrendolche (Ehrendolch), translated in English Honor Dagger. But in books or collector scene Honor Daggers are the ones with the oak crossguard style etc. So for my view the given daggers name Honor Dagger is not 100% right for my view.
Rob NL, do you have a photo from the Grip and is the blade marked? The knot says 35, nice!
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#41203
11/17/2009 09:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Robert - In my opinion (and interpretation) an Ehren-xxxxx is awarded and not an item available for purchase unless you meet certain criteria. Not too long ago these degens without the SS-runes were called officer-candidates sword, I just elect to call it a Degen, not Ehrendegen as I have so far seen no evidence to these being awarded... RobNL: That's a beauty!!!! Cheers,
Tor-Helge
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#41204
11/18/2009 12:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
right awarded, is there a sales list out that SS off. could purchase them? I doubt it, and for sure not before 1939 or so.
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#41205
11/18/2009 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
Hi guys , thanks for the compliments
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#41206
11/18/2009 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
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#41207
11/18/2009 10:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,365
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,365 |
quote: Originally posted by Robert H.: right awarded, is there a sales list out that SS off. could purchase them? I doubt it, and for sure not before 1939 or so.
Didn't the the SS Man/ Officer have to purchase their dagger/Degan after they were authorized to carry one? The only exception may have been Rohm/Himmler daggers.
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#41208
11/19/2009 12:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
REALLY nice to see these examples. I feel lucky to own one as they are much harder to obtain than the M36 daggers. Just like the daggers many of the Degens have been reproduced or messed with.
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#41209
11/19/2009 01:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
how is the slogan? "always earned, never given". These Degen are falling under an award term i.e. JST/JSB and are so called Ehrendegen, given for honor incl. with the document. Parts where actually done from Gahr in München for these Degen. So called Dachau swords, I have no deep history about them. And from Gahr to PMD is kind of a difference for me.
Starting for the rank of Untersturmfuhrer Off. should normally get this Degen but this did not happen often at all. JST-JSB with successful conclusion received this Degen and the rest was given from HH. This are the numbers I was told once for the given Degens. As higher the rank as more you will find.
SS-Führerkorps 362 Standartenführer (from 621), 236 Oberführer (from 276), 88 Gruppenführer (from 96), 91 Obergruppenführer (from 92) and all four Oberstgruppenführer.
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#41210
11/19/2009 03:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693 |
SS Officer swords were presented and could not be purchased. So, they are Ehrendegen just as a Himmler or Rohm dagger would be. Best Wishes Bob
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#41211
11/19/2009 10:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
quote: Originally posted by Trigger: Hi, SS Officers sword, but not Ehrendegen Krebs marked. Best regards,
Bob, Robert, So this degen without the inlaid runes in the grip is an awarded Officers Ehrendegen in your opinion?
Tor-Helge
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#41212
11/19/2009 01:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
with the runes in the grip ...
when you think I am wrong why is then in every SS Off. file from the SS-Personalhauptamt the Ehrendegen listed? You find there as well listed the bloodorder, Julleucter, Sportsbadge, TK ring etc.
And knowing is not an opinion, these are facts. Not sure why you wonder about this matter that it is not an Ehrendegen.
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#41213
11/19/2009 01:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
quote: So this degen without the inlaid runes in the grip is an awarded Officers Ehrendegen in your opinion?
Tor-Helge
My understanding is that;Up until fairly recently the SS sword without the runes in the grip was thought to be an officers candidate sword and worn until the candidate became an officer. Currenty the thinking is that this sword was a private purchase by those officers who had not been awarded an honor degen. Jim
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#41214
11/19/2009 01:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Jim, I am totally with you!! Robert, maybe you misunderstood my original post, as it shows there the "candidate" degen without the runes in the grip. I agree about the ones with SS-runes, never questioned these as Ehrendegen. But I do not (yet.. ) think of the " Officers Candidate" degens as Ehrendegens... Do you?
Tor-Helge
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#41215
11/19/2009 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Hi All: Thought you might find this photo interesting of Himmler presenting Ehrendegens to new graduates from an SS officer school. I am working from microfilm so this was a tough one to get. Enjoy! Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.comwww.HistoricGraphics.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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#41216
11/20/2009 12:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Thanks for the picture Ross: This photo and others like it has always raised a question for me. It appears that Himmler would take whatever sword was given to him from the pile the other officer is carrying and present it to the next man. Now we all know that honor degens come in different lengths to account for differering heights of the wearer. I wonder if and how this was taken into consideration during the presentation? Jim
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#41217
11/20/2009 01:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
Helge, then it was a misunderstanding from my side. The one w/o the rune button are no Ehrendegen, right.
Nice to see the fresh graduated leaders, probably a Junkerschule graduation.
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#41218
11/20/2009 01:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
Jim, I don't know, but suspect they were discreetly temporarily marked for presentation to the proper owner, or were sorted out after the ceremony.
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#41219
11/20/2009 01:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Grumpy: It always appears to me that these ceremonies were held at night under torchlight which IMO would make trying to read something interesting. I'm sure there was some way this was done it just isnn't apparent from the pictures. Jim
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#41220
11/20/2009 01:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693 |
Hi Guys! Here are a few of mine, the middle one belonged to a General ! Best Wishes, Bob
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