#41181
11/07/2009 11:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
Well get-em out folks!
This is my Krebs NCO sword.
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#41182
11/07/2009 11:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
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#41183
11/08/2009 12:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#41184
11/08/2009 12:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
And the mark.
John
TM.JPG (38.89 KB, 1538 downloads)
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#41185
11/08/2009 01:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
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#41186
11/08/2009 04:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
here are some beloved ones
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#41187
11/08/2009 04:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
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#41188
11/08/2009 12:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Hi, SS Officers sword, but not Ehrendegen Krebs marked. Best regards,
Tor-Helge
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#41189
11/08/2009 12:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Tor-Helge
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#41190
11/08/2009 12:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Unmarked Ehrendegen, nickelsilver with a little mix. If ever cleaned, it's a looong time ago. I love it when they show patina.
Cheers,
Tor-Helge
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#41191
11/08/2009 12:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Tor-Helge
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#41192
11/08/2009 12:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
What do you call it - Ferrel - the ring above the crossguard is in plated steel. The rest of the grip fittings are nickel.
Tor-Helge
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#41193
11/08/2009 12:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
I like the way the patina builds up... Last pic.
Best regards,
Tor-Helge
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#41194
11/08/2009 01:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
Love the untouched patina as 95% of all German daggers, swords have been cleaned up or messed with in some point in time. Very Nice examples! Oddly if one cleaned up a civil war sword it would drop the value by 50% or less.
Mine has the lovely greenish patina.
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#41195
11/08/2009 02:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,025 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,025 Likes: 1 |
I have one additional new born not yet in the family photo.
One is a Krebs, the others early nickel silver and unmarked.
My way of attaching the portepee so as not to stretch and put pressure on this nearly 75 year old material.
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#41196
11/08/2009 02:34 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
Tor's unmarked example that shows a combination of a steel ferrule and nickel hilt parts, is something that can be seen with an early degen. Like the M36 Chain dagger, the time frame of which we observe the manufacture of these initial production run degens comprised of all nickel parts, was very short. It's my belief that the combination of steel and nickel started showing up the latter part of 1936. I attribute this also to the fact that parts to put together these degens were being supplied by more than one vendor. Hence we see ferrules made from steel, pommel nuts too, and grip runes even made from aluminum, all while being matched with nickel hilt fittings.
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#41197
11/08/2009 06:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Here's some in my "South West Sword Stand" This was when I only had one example and it's the one in the back. I'll take some more pictures when I get a chance. Awesome dispay! John. Jim
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#41198
11/09/2009 04:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 70
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 70 |
HERE IS MINE,HOPE YOU LIKE.NO MAKER WITH SS # ON BLADE. JOE.
<img src=http://www.germandaggers.com/images/Vet-US.jpg>
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#41199
11/09/2009 04:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Here's a picture of my examples. Top to botton: Top: P D Krebs Middle: Unmarked example Bottom: Dachau Example Jim
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#41200
11/17/2009 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
Hi all , nice degens here , this is my contribution .
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#41201
11/17/2009 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
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#41202
11/17/2009 09:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
Trigger,
SS Officers sword, but not Ehrendegen? These are so called Ehrendegen.
Example Roehm Daggers are Ehrendolche (Ehrendolch), translated in English Honor Dagger. But in books or collector scene Honor Daggers are the ones with the oak crossguard style etc. So for my view the given daggers name Honor Dagger is not 100% right for my view.
Rob NL, do you have a photo from the Grip and is the blade marked? The knot says 35, nice!
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#41203
11/17/2009 09:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Robert - In my opinion (and interpretation) an Ehren-xxxxx is awarded and not an item available for purchase unless you meet certain criteria. Not too long ago these degens without the SS-runes were called officer-candidates sword, I just elect to call it a Degen, not Ehrendegen as I have so far seen no evidence to these being awarded... RobNL: That's a beauty!!!! Cheers,
Tor-Helge
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#41204
11/18/2009 12:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
right awarded, is there a sales list out that SS off. could purchase them? I doubt it, and for sure not before 1939 or so.
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#41205
11/18/2009 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
Hi guys , thanks for the compliments
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#41206
11/18/2009 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 517 |
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#41207
11/18/2009 10:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,365
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,365 |
quote: Originally posted by Robert H.: right awarded, is there a sales list out that SS off. could purchase them? I doubt it, and for sure not before 1939 or so.
Didn't the the SS Man/ Officer have to purchase their dagger/Degan after they were authorized to carry one? The only exception may have been Rohm/Himmler daggers.
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#41208
11/19/2009 12:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
REALLY nice to see these examples. I feel lucky to own one as they are much harder to obtain than the M36 daggers. Just like the daggers many of the Degens have been reproduced or messed with.
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#41209
11/19/2009 01:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
how is the slogan? "always earned, never given". These Degen are falling under an award term i.e. JST/JSB and are so called Ehrendegen, given for honor incl. with the document. Parts where actually done from Gahr in München for these Degen. So called Dachau swords, I have no deep history about them. And from Gahr to PMD is kind of a difference for me.
Starting for the rank of Untersturmfuhrer Off. should normally get this Degen but this did not happen often at all. JST-JSB with successful conclusion received this Degen and the rest was given from HH. This are the numbers I was told once for the given Degens. As higher the rank as more you will find.
SS-Führerkorps 362 Standartenführer (from 621), 236 Oberführer (from 276), 88 Gruppenführer (from 96), 91 Obergruppenführer (from 92) and all four Oberstgruppenführer.
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#41210
11/19/2009 03:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693 |
SS Officer swords were presented and could not be purchased. So, they are Ehrendegen just as a Himmler or Rohm dagger would be. Best Wishes Bob
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#41211
11/19/2009 10:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
quote: Originally posted by Trigger: Hi, SS Officers sword, but not Ehrendegen Krebs marked. Best regards,
Bob, Robert, So this degen without the inlaid runes in the grip is an awarded Officers Ehrendegen in your opinion?
Tor-Helge
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#41212
11/19/2009 01:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
with the runes in the grip ...
when you think I am wrong why is then in every SS Off. file from the SS-Personalhauptamt the Ehrendegen listed? You find there as well listed the bloodorder, Julleucter, Sportsbadge, TK ring etc.
And knowing is not an opinion, these are facts. Not sure why you wonder about this matter that it is not an Ehrendegen.
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#41213
11/19/2009 01:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
quote: So this degen without the inlaid runes in the grip is an awarded Officers Ehrendegen in your opinion?
Tor-Helge
My understanding is that;Up until fairly recently the SS sword without the runes in the grip was thought to be an officers candidate sword and worn until the candidate became an officer. Currenty the thinking is that this sword was a private purchase by those officers who had not been awarded an honor degen. Jim
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#41214
11/19/2009 01:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
Jim, I am totally with you!! Robert, maybe you misunderstood my original post, as it shows there the "candidate" degen without the runes in the grip. I agree about the ones with SS-runes, never questioned these as Ehrendegen. But I do not (yet.. ) think of the " Officers Candidate" degens as Ehrendegens... Do you?
Tor-Helge
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#41215
11/19/2009 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Hi All: Thought you might find this photo interesting of Himmler presenting Ehrendegens to new graduates from an SS officer school. I am working from microfilm so this was a tough one to get. Enjoy! Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.comwww.HistoricGraphics.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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#41216
11/20/2009 12:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Thanks for the picture Ross: This photo and others like it has always raised a question for me. It appears that Himmler would take whatever sword was given to him from the pile the other officer is carrying and present it to the next man. Now we all know that honor degens come in different lengths to account for differering heights of the wearer. I wonder if and how this was taken into consideration during the presentation? Jim
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#41217
11/20/2009 01:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
Helge, then it was a misunderstanding from my side. The one w/o the rune button are no Ehrendegen, right.
Nice to see the fresh graduated leaders, probably a Junkerschule graduation.
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#41218
11/20/2009 01:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
Jim, I don't know, but suspect they were discreetly temporarily marked for presentation to the proper owner, or were sorted out after the ceremony.
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#41219
11/20/2009 01:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Grumpy: It always appears to me that these ceremonies were held at night under torchlight which IMO would make trying to read something interesting. I'm sure there was some way this was done it just isnn't apparent from the pictures. Jim
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#41220
11/20/2009 01:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693 |
Hi Guys! Here are a few of mine, the middle one belonged to a General ! Best Wishes, Bob
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#41221
11/20/2009 02:17 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
wasn't there a proper size requirement for the Junkerschulen (in the early years like this photo shows)? Then they needed no shorter Degen for the long legged new LAH Untersturmfürer. Just pick the longest ones
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#41222
11/20/2009 02:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Beautiful examples Bob: To me the SS/Police swords are the most elegant of all 3rd Reich swords. In a most sinister way of course! Jim
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#41223
11/20/2009 03:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693 |
Thanks Jim, I just have a soft spot for all swords, especially Damascus ones?! SS/Police swords are awesome as are Luftwaffe and the rest. This is my problem in life, I like it all!!! Best Wishes, Bob
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#41224
11/20/2009 07:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831 |
quote: Originally posted by jim m: Thanks for the picture Ross: This photo and others like it has always raised a question for me. It appears that Himmler would take whatever sword was given to him from the pile the other officer is carrying and present it to the next man. Now we all know that honor degens come in different lengths to account for differering heights of the wearer. I wonder if and how this was taken into consideration during the presentation? Jim
Or maybe the presentation was just that - A presentation of the degen, a ceremony and the degens were collected afterwards and the recipients actually later received theirs??
Tor-Helge
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#41225
11/21/2009 12:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
this would not show any German traditions, do it right and not only half way ...
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#41226
11/21/2009 07:17 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
On 2 instances I have seen an SS officer's name on a small piece of paper, that had been rolled and placed on the inside of the pommel nut, of an early degen.
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#41227
11/21/2009 08:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
That could explain the "sorting out after the ceremony" possibility.
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#41228
11/21/2009 08:27 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
That's been my thought after I encountered the second of such degens, found with the recipients name on the piece of paper.
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#41229
11/21/2009 08:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
Why would it be so hard? IE example any graduation have 100's of diplomas. I can't imagine it was hard to organize a group in a specific order with a bunch of swords.
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#41230
11/21/2009 08:44 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
I would suspect that the officer was carrying about 10 degens perhaps at one time. They would kind of get mixed up a little when taking one from the stack at least for the first few. Perhaps the name tag under the pommel assured that in the end the right degen ended up with the proper new candidate.
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#41231
11/21/2009 10:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,054
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,054 |
quote: Originally posted by Eric Rader: Why would it be so hard? IE example any graduation have 100's of diplomas. I can't imagine it was hard to organize a group in a specific order with a bunch of swords.
Funny, the graduations I have been to lately, they hand them the diploma cover(all the same), and give them the actual named diploma paper for it after the ceremony. I guess in modern times, it has become too complicated....
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#41232
11/21/2009 10:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
that is sad!!! My trade school, high school and college (both) had our names on the diploma.
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#41233
11/21/2009 11:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,365
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,365 |
quote: Originally posted by vintagetimenow: quote: Originally posted by Eric Rader: Why would it be so hard? IE example any graduation have 100's of diplomas. I can't imagine it was hard to organize a group in a specific order with a bunch of swords.
Funny, the graduations I have been to lately, they hand them the diploma cover(all the same), and give them the actual named diploma paper for it after the ceremony. I guess in modern times, it has become too complicated....
The reason they give only the covers is the grad may not have passed all their exams.
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#41234
11/22/2009 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Ref JR,s comment, I too have seen a "name tag" in the form of a rolled strip of paper carrying the name,SS # Rank placed inside the hollowed out pommel nut.Often wondered if it was part of the "Himmler Presentation" process??? Seiler (Yank in UK)
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#41235
11/24/2009 11:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 48
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 48 |
Hello , i like the Swords. I find he looks fine to my. The Setup from the Swords looks beautiful !! Sometime i find a Sword for my Collection! The Pics from Himmler from J:R and Ross. NICE! Gays congratulate to your Swords. Best Regards Sebastian
Search a Chained SS Dagger and a officer SS Degen
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#41236
01/02/2010 07:01 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
36 Model........... early no maker..........
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#41237
03/07/2010 12:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654
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OP
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,654 |
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#41238
03/14/2010 09:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20 |
HI Guys, My lovely example once belonged to SS Gruppenfuhrer Dr Friederich Weber. I've had this degen researched and verified by Thomas Wittmann and Robert McDivitt. Both these gentlemen gave me tons of information to verify the original recipient. Dr Weber was very instrumental in helping Hitler gain power and was present at the beer hall putsch in 1923. Like all these swords, they are a very important part of history. Regards, Wolfslair.
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#41239
03/14/2010 09:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Posts: 20 |
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#41240
03/14/2010 09:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Posts: 20 |
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#41241
03/14/2010 02:23 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
A seldom seen degen of significant importance and attributed.................a wonderful piece! Could you check the metal composition of the hilt pieces for us ? I like to try and date these officer's versions with that info. Thanks an congratulations... JR
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#41242
03/14/2010 08:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20 |
Thank you JR for your compliments. The fittings on this sword are all of nickel silver and the SS knot tag interior marked 158/35. Hope this helps. Of interest, this sword will be coming up for sale in the near future. Regards, Wolfslair.
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#41243
03/14/2010 09:44 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
Indeed one of the earliest production examples. A fine one for sure.
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#41244
03/18/2010 02:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,426 |
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#41245
04/13/2010 07:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,621
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Posts: 1,621 |
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#41246
04/13/2010 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,621
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Posts: 1,621 |
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#41247
04/13/2010 08:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
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#41248
04/13/2010 08:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 925
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 925 |
quote: Originally posted by tobau: next
I'm breathless!
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#41249
04/14/2010 04:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 211
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 211 |
Here's my only Officer Degen; hilt is all nickel except Assmann aluminum Rune button. Stepped fit.
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#41250
04/14/2010 04:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 211
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 211 |
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#41251
04/14/2010 06:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20 |
Beatiful swords gentlemen. Great photos but nothing beats when you can see and hold one in your hands. Regards, Wolfslair
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#41252
06/06/2010 08:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20 |
quote: Originally posted by jim m: Thanks for the picture Ross: This photo and others like it has always raised a question for me. It appears that Himmler would take whatever sword was given to him from the pile the other officer is carrying and present it to the next man. Now we all know that honor degens come in different lengths to account for differering heights of the wearer. I wonder if and how this was taken into consideration during the presentation? Jim
Here's a thought. Maybe they got all these officers who where roughly the same height to stand side by side. If you study the photo you can see these men are all nearly the same size. 10 guys at 6 feet stand together, next ten guy who are 6 feet 2 inch stand together etc. Both photos show guys lined up all seem to be the same height. Just an alternate observation! Best, Wolfslair.
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thanks for dredging up this rare photo...a proud moment in time to be sure.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
Here's one that came in recently. Unmarked, uncleaned, 33 in. blade. -serge-
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
Let's try it without the RR Eagle back-drop. -serge-
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Posts: 1 |
I looked just to see JR post one... JR you sure can photo those bad boys you have. U were humble on this thread with just that picture!
"There is no end to making money, but there is an end to life."
Joe
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Posts: 734
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 734 |
Whats the longest out there? Just got one in thats 40" total and the blade is 33", seems pretty long !
Always buying Blood Orders.
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I have had blades on SS degens up to an exceptional 37.5 inches in length.
A 33 inch blade, such as the example you own, is an attractive length for these SS degens and very desirable.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,778 Likes: 29
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,778 Likes: 29 |
Posting for Barry Brown.
* The tallest sword is an early no maker mark type with 37.5" blade. * The middle is an early P D Krebs with 33" blade. * The shortest is a "birthday sword" with 30.5" blade.
Gary
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Joined: May 2007
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
trying to keep this thread active........ Unmarked blade, early nickel separate step fitting SS Officer's Degen.
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,552 Likes: 9 |
Krebs marked and attributed, 35 1/4" blade
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980 Likes: 4
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Joined: Aug 2000
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JR, Any luck with the man's service number? See you next month in Pittsburgh ... W~
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 671 |
Good night Irene.....finally have my electricity and internet back! SS-Hauptsturmführer Hans Meyer, SS No. 48 462, DOB 15 May 1904, NSDAP 731 018. All I ever found on him were his NSDAP membership file cards. See you in Pittsburgh. Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Are there any etched examples?
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Here is my sword. It is an early one full nickel best regards seb.
i´m looking to a Knight Cross grouping : KC, Documents and pictures all from one Man
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Pretty nice degen ,Sebastian
i haven't seen it before!
Gerd
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002 Likes: 29
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002 Likes: 29 |
If you like the ountouched salty ones you can see more of it in my thread "something salty" in the sword forum. Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 70
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Joined: Sep 2004
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here is my early degen
Last edited by JOE LINGE; 10/09/2011 04:01 PM.
<img src=http://www.germandaggers.com/images/Vet-US.jpg>
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and i have an urgent question to ask. On the net, i found a Höller, Solingen SS Officer sword for sale, now offcourse my question is, could this be an authentique one. The seller is not a professional & he is no collector. He seems to be thrustworthy. We have agreed on the price and saturday morning we will meet for the sell. sword
Last edited by jenthesmeets; 10/25/2011 01:03 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023 Likes: 1 |
Never heard of an SS Officer degan by Holler. There's something going on with that back-strap... I would not buy this one. Sorry.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,274 |
Never heard of an SS Officer degan by Holler. There's something going on with that back-strap... I would not buy this one. Sorry. I'm in agreement, and tried (without success) to take a better look with the back strap/connector piece just to see what was being used to fill in the grove. FP
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
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I wouldn't buy it, but there does seem to be something questionable about such swords. The "conventional wisdom" is they are post-war "parts" swords. Some, perhaps all, are just that. However, for what it's worth, occasionally, such a sword appears "out of the woodwork," as a vet bring-back. They could still have been post-war assembled, but I wonder. There is a "Dachau" type in Angolia's "sword" book with a "Voos" blade. I bought one years ago for a song that has "Dachau" hilt fittings, but with a "Holler" blade and conventional scabbard. Purchased from the vet's family. I'm well aware that souveniers were being scavanged all over Europe by G.I's and, no doubt, many were being accomodated by the indigenous population, who would not hesitate to enhance something to make a fast dollar. But, I wonder if there was an inordinate demand for SS items, as compared to other items. In other words, would it have been worth it to alter a police sword to an SS model in those days? Would an SS sword have brought more than a police sword back then? It's all speculation and I have mentioned it before, but, if some such swords are original to the period, there are two principal theories, I think. l) The first is the "Dachau" forge was forced to order sword parts, including blades, from other manufacturers, due to a shortage of their own parts or because such a high demand for finished swords was placed upon it. 2) Some police swords were altered by SS members because of a shortage of, or discontinuance of, swords. Such would likely have only been done by those who were authorized to carry the sword. Another possibility is police swords were altered for parade and ceremonial wear, while the actual award degen was safely put away to prevent damage. It seems most, but not all, SS degens are found in remarkably good condition, which may lend some credence to this idea. In the meantime, the safe bet is to go only with the so-called "textbook" examples.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974 |
Here is mine. Unmarked, not minty, but I'm quite happy to own it.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Early construction, something I like best.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Their length makes them hard to photograph...
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SD Obersturmfuhrer with ss-officer sword without runes. Probobly private purchase. An option for officers not graduated from Junkerschule.
Last edited by Fjordor; 03/01/2019 06:44 PM. Reason: Misspelling
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002 Likes: 29
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002 Likes: 29 |
Fjordor, welcome to the forum! This crtain photograph is well known within collector circles. I personally did always wonder if it shows a somehow PERIOD manipulated degen. The middle of grip looks for me like something has happened to it. Would liek to have a look on the original photograph... I do collect "wearing..." pics and I do have at least two photographs with SSdegens in wear which clearly have been PERIOD manipulated. One seems to have a custom set in runes emblem and the other one has a turned around grip most likely from a police officer degen, obviously not to show the police emblem. And I do have a lot of pics of SSleaders wearing police degens. At least in one case I have proof that he never has had any period connex to police. The wish for wearing degens has been present by leaders and the bestowal has been ceased with the start of war. Therefore some strange things did happen already during the period. Regards,
wotan, gd.c-b#105
"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 18
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Here's one to add to the list of makers...Carl Julius Krebs.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 831
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Nice one fsmc. Is it marked with the runes under the crossguard?
Tor-Helge
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 18
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Thanks! Double stamp under the guard and none on the scabbard.
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