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#40908 01/23/2010 09:24 AM
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Hi friends,

I'm posting this piece for a friend from another forum. There was some discussion on it, and the jury is still out. Hoping some members who have a solid fundamental understanding of the leader pieces can provide some insight into the authenticity of this piece. The collector who had posted these pics elsewhere tells me it came as a lot with a few other pieces, all of which were good, and it came from Europe where the dagger still resides today.

Without further ado, here are his pictures.

He appreciates all the help and information which you guys can provide. Leaders pieces are not my bag, and I have always kept my distance from these pieces.

Thank you again,
Tom

HJ-Leader-1.jpg (48.39 KB, 474 downloads)

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#40909 01/23/2010 09:24 AM
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2

HJ-leader-2.jpg (61.06 KB, 472 downloads)

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#40910 01/23/2010 09:25 AM
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HJ-leader-3.jpg (99.16 KB, 466 downloads)

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#40911 01/23/2010 09:25 AM
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4

HJ-Leader-4.jpg (103.19 KB, 464 downloads)

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#40912 01/23/2010 09:25 AM
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HJ-leader-5.jpg (104.22 KB, 461 downloads)

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#40913 01/23/2010 09:26 AM
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HJ-leader-6.jpg (38.69 KB, 458 downloads)

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#40914 01/23/2010 09:26 AM
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HJ-leader-7.jpg (57.47 KB, 455 downloads)

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#40915 01/23/2010 09:27 AM
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HJ-leader-9.jpg (99.44 KB, 449 downloads)

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#40916 01/23/2010 09:27 AM
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HJ-leader-12.jpg (87.88 KB, 442 downloads)

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#40917 01/23/2010 09:54 AM
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He would also like to know about the authenticity of the hanger rig.

Tom

HJ-hangers-1.jpg (50.84 KB, 437 downloads)

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#40918 01/23/2010 09:55 AM
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HJ-hangers-4.jpg (75.34 KB, 421 downloads)

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#40919 01/23/2010 09:56 AM
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HJ-hangers-5.jpg (106.16 KB, 421 downloads)

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#40920 01/23/2010 09:56 AM
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Last image.

HJ-hangers-9.jpg (99.31 KB, 417 downloads)

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#40921 01/23/2010 01:28 PM
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Wow!! now that is what I call a dagger.What is inscribed on the scabbard fittings?. Is it H S bahn 399 ? You really do not have any doubts about this dagger. Do you ? How is patination like that going too be faked? I wish every dagger I bought looked like this.


"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
#40922 01/23/2010 02:34 PM
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Indeed, it is "bann 399" plus what I assume the initials of the owner. personnaly i don't have bath doubts about the dagger becaue for one time also the story is at least a bit reliable. All other pieces in this small souvenir grouping are good. It comes from a Belgian POW who worked after the liberation for the American GI's as a translator. The man was not the type that visted gun shows or fairs after his period of duty, a thing that sometimes can bring fakes in veteran collections.



Regards, Wim

#40923 01/23/2010 02:45 PM
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I would like too know where this dagger is being reviewed just too know what questions are raised about this dagger.


"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
#40924 01/23/2010 05:33 PM
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Hi,

I first posted the dagger in our own forum (WWMF), reactions were let's say careful optimistic. To speak the truth: many of us don't know much about such a rare bird. I learnt a bit more in the last couple of days but before? I would never thought to have one in my hands directly from a veteran. And then you don't study them very well. I also expected more response here, because this is a higly specialized dagger forum. But maybe I'm just a bit too impatient.
The entire dagger has a very light weight feeling which sems to be correct because most parts are made from aluminium, no?

The bann designation in known. We do have some HJ specialists.

Regards, Wim

#40925 01/23/2010 06:47 PM
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Looks like an authentic poopep out Eik to me.

#40926 01/23/2010 08:08 PM
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All features so typical for EICKHORN are here. Obviously one of those early lightweight scabbard daggers (later EICKHORNs also did come with the HÖRSTER feature scabbard). also all typical features of a LÜNESCHLOSS marked hanger.
Not the least red flag (although I do not like engravings BUT in this case even the engraving looks totally ok and period) beside that it is not in my collection Wink .
Regards


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#40927 01/23/2010 09:39 PM
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Thank you for the opinions fellas. I'm sure Theo is releived with the good news. Leader daggers are spookey and alot of folks just won't touch them.


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#40928 01/23/2010 10:44 PM
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I know nothing about these but it looks like a nice thing.

#40929 01/24/2010 12:16 AM
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Sure looks old!!

#40930 01/24/2010 12:52 AM
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The first photo with the hangers really tells a story!! I have never seen one in that type of condition. I have always seen them looking newer and shiny. IMO to me this dagger is more desirable. I like these old conditioned ones. Nice catch Best Larry


Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
#40931 01/24/2010 01:32 PM
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At least I do have another one (dagger by EICKHORN is without corrosions; hangers are also LÜNESCHLOSS marked) with some Wink accoutrements in my personal collection Big Grin.
Regards,

1_r.jpg (32.63 KB, 274 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#40932 01/24/2010 01:42 PM
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Beautiful piece, Wotan.

About Siegfried's remark: Is it possible that all the daggers which are shown by major dealers are cleaned? On the dagger I have all silverd fittings have that delicate black patina.

Regards, Wim

#40933 01/24/2010 02:33 PM
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I imagine the document to be far rarer than the dagger!!
P


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
#40934 01/24/2010 03:07 PM
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Wotan:

WOW!

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
#40935 01/24/2010 06:46 PM
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What was noted elsewhere about the dagger Theo (Wim) posted is you'll notice the personalization. It appears that it has been plated inside the letters/#'s. I can't recall seeing an example with plating inside the charachters on a personalization.

Wim- Did the member contact you? I gave him your addy provided in your GDC profile.

Tom


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#40936 01/24/2010 07:58 PM
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Fellow collectors, thank you for your comments. I appreciate them.
@ Swordfish, sorry, I did not want to highjack this thread but could not resist to show that I know what I am speeking about Wink.
The engraving, as far as I can see from the pics, is NOT plateted. It has typical oxidation marks (see pic) which occur when a plating is cut through due to engravind and does oxidate at several edges.
But as stated, I do like this certain engraving very much and also due to these certain oxidations (eaqual to all overall oxidations) it is an old engraving and therefore most likely (for me by sure) done during the period.
Regards,

HJ-leader-5_marked.JPG (90.8 KB, 227 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#40937 01/24/2010 08:08 PM
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Just a simple questions:

1. wotan - how throat in Your dagger is attached to upper fitting ? As far as I know Eick used one screw on the back of the upper fitting...

2. Can You guys post here etching of Eick leader HJ..

#40938 01/24/2010 08:17 PM
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@ Gottlieb.
"Middle early" (I assume those squirrel maker marked EICKHORNs are earlier) EICKHORNs don´t have any screw, they do have the "built in" or integrated scabbard mouth (as I think it is shown here and my dagger also has this configuration). Only later ones do have the HÖRSTER configuration with one screw on the reverse.
Keep in mind that also fakes do have this HÖRSTER configuration but up to now I never have seen or heard about a faked integrated scabbard mouth.
The etching is shown here in pics 6 and 7.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#40939 01/24/2010 08:28 PM
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That is what I wanted to know. I have HJ leader with similar markings shown here above but with screw on the back of upper fitting. I thought all Eicks have'em...

Thanks a lot wotan

#40940 01/25/2010 03:11 AM
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I have had a couple of HJ leaders off of my ads. Have not had one in quite a few years. But anyways, i never wanted to keep one, i know there are rare, but i really do not like the looks of that dagger.JMO.
thanks,
Bob


robert grant
#40941 01/25/2010 03:25 AM
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Nice dagger


collecting any Kingdom of Serbia and Kingdom of Yugoslavia millitary things
#40942 01/26/2010 01:11 AM
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Great Leader grouping there wotan! -Congrats!
Is that the original owner at his wedding?

-serge

#40943 01/26/2010 01:33 AM
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Wotan,
I believe you.

It's not my piece, nor did I take the photos..as such, i've never held the dagger. The engraving was discussed elsewhere because it does almost look like there was some sort of plating inside the characters..but I guess it's just simply from how the base metal scarred during the engraving process.

Tom


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#40944 01/26/2010 09:02 PM
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@Swordfish: just for completition, when you look at the two 9 s about half of the plating in the circles is missed. due to my experiences this only happens when a plating is cut through by engraving, therefore the ground material or the connecting material can corrode and the plating partially corrodes away. This does not happen this certain way if an engraving is plated afterwards.
I am glad you see it this way too as this is nothing detracting from the dagger or the engraving.

@Serge: The photograph of the original wearer is too small (I have one, also a wedding photograph) so I did change it for the composition of this photograph.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#40945 01/27/2010 01:22 AM
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Wotan,
That's great having a photo of the original owner. Something we never get here in the states from our Vets.
One would be lucky if he's alive and can remember the circumstances of the daggers procurement.

Regards,
-serge-

#40946 01/27/2010 06:45 AM
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Wotan,
Makes sense to me.


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#40947 01/27/2010 06:42 PM
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@ swordfish: Thank you very much for placing the pictures here.

@ Wotan: Thank you for the technical explanation of the engraving.

Regards, Wim Smile


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