UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Medals & Badges of the Third Reich Forum Pin Plates

It occured to me the other day that less experienced collectors of small badges may not know what we mean when we refer to coffin shaped pin plates on fake badges. So I will try to expalin.

First of all, a pin plate is the small, usually round, but by no means always, plate that holds the pin to the back of the plate. These plates can be found in many styles & shapes. Usually round or rectanguler, but sometime oval.

The term "Coffin shape" was coined by fellow collector Stephen Lauterns & refers to the often smaller narrower & more angular oval plates introduced sometime around the 1970's. Their appearence resembling a coffin.

Below are a couple of examples of very obvious coffin shaped pin plates.

After a number of years, or with some artificial aging, the pinplate can look less obvious & more convincing that the piece is old. Below shows the reverse of an RLB badge with some very convincing patina. However, the plate shows that this badge is a fake.

Some people get worried at the site of an oval plate. There's no need to be, oval plates are often found on period badges & should be be confused for the fake coffin plate. Indeed, some manufacturers such as Hoffstatter seemed to favour oval plates, & this information can be used to help identify a geniune Hoffstatter piece like the one shown below. Note that although oval, it does not have the narrow more angular shape of the fakes shown in the above posts.

Another example of a geniune piece with an oval plate. This time a transitional piece made by Steinhaur & Luck.

Fully rectangular plates are fine as well, as with the design below with crimping to hold the pin erect, favoured by companies such as Alois Klammer & Karl Pichl. Or the short wide types seen on very early pieces.

I hope that this goes some way to clarify what we mean by a coffin shaped pin plate.

Thanks, Don,

That explains a lot.

Dave

Good informative thread Don. Do you still have a period catalog page showing available pins and pin plates?

I will pin the pin plate thread.

Geeeez, now you're asking! I found it in a reference book & then posted it on in a thread on a forum somewhere. The problem is that I cannot remember which book or forum/thread it was at the moment

I think I had an old catalog showing this but I'm not sure I still have it. A lot of my stuff was thrown in the trash. I will check.

I found some of my reference material.If I recall it has a lot of different sizes of pins. Shows plates, latches and other parts. Best

Thanks to Joe's encyclopaedic knowledge of the thread on this forum here is the image that I posted way back in 2008 from Frank Heukemes book on the General Assault Badge....

Thanks Joe.

Hey Don,


Was Carl Distel a gold and silversmith? Do you have his registered trademark?

It's hard to know all what is known and not known. I absolutely agree with the statement from the advertisement. That is, gold and silversmiths and badge manufactures purchased setups from those companies that were manufactures of these setups. There were a number of these companies..Thank you.

Don,
Is it okay to post some setup pieces?

Sorry, no. This was from a reference book on the General Assault Badge.


Of course!

Thanks Don,

Basically the same as the advertisement shown by you but a lot of it with different sizes and descriptions.

One interesting needle comes from America lol. Have you heard of it before? Best!

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The Amerik mark or reference on jewelry refers to gold-filled or rolled gold.

The sicherheitsnadeln - safety pins, are interesting to see with the various sizes. Every once in awhile an example is seen attached to a medal ribbon.

--dj--Joe

Thank you Joe,

I read it wrong you are absolutely correct. I have always known it as just Dublee, not Amerikaner Double. I like learning something new and now I know why and the history behind it. But it did come from America and caught on in Europe lol.

Dublee to me is a double metal like it's name suggests, which consists of a mostly thin inner layer of precious metal, usually gold, less often platinum and a very strong base of tombac or silver. In contrast to alloys, the precious metal is "not mixed with the base metal", but lies separately on the upper layer. The gold coating itself is alloyed gold, usually 14 or18 karat and was made in special doublee factories. Joe, what you stated but with just a little more detail lol. Thanks Joe much appreciated. Best!

.

Bending rings

I can imagine many jewelry uses for the bending rings and possibly medal use as suspension and suspension rings.

Broach and badge use for the block hinges.

Were there any pages of catches? The advertisement posted by Don shows some catches.

--dj--Joe

Hey Joe,

I will look for my other references.

They call them bending rings, maybe we just call them suspension rings, see many uses for them as well. It also shows snap rings but look like bending rings to me. Catches are shown but my camera doesn't show the detail. Operators fault lol. On Don's advertisement, 2nd setup from the top down on the left. Is it a threaded type? Yes the block hinges used on both, same concept right imo.

The bad picture lol below shows thicker and more blunted needles.

Some interesting pins & attachments there, thanks for showing them.

Mikee, on the advert. Don posted I would not think the post on the catch is threaded. More likely a post to set into a predrilled hole and either soldered in place for a metal item or cemented in like the ceramic WHW type items. (?). Not positive though.
I have never had an opportunity to see a relic badge with the catch missing and a hole for a post. I have seen badges missing catches and catch plates that had been soldered to a flat surface. I wonder what an item with a missing crimped on catch looks like?

--dj--Joe

Thanks Joe,

My references also shows catches soldered to flat plates.

Yes makes sense. In my references it shows similar but threaded for antler or Ivory etc.

Mikee, threaded posts for antler, ivory, etc. Interesting. I would think they would still be glued in place for strength. (?).

--dj--Joe

Joe,

II'm curios now lol. I would think so as well. I Will look at some items I own and I will also look at what my references say.

Thank you Don!

I know I have more it's just finding them lol.

.

Here are a few more pins and setups from another company. Sometimes I just can't get my camera to focus right.

You could purchase these in packs of a hundred or a thousand with a special price of course.

Left to right:

Straight type pin
Bent at an angle type pin
Bent flat punched type pin
Soldered plate type pin
Riveted plate type pin

Bottom parts for badges

Two types of pin locks.

Skinny and fat type pin locks

You could buy the plates separate of course and solder yourself. It makes plenty of sense if you buy a pack of a hundred or a thousand at a discount the time you save soldering one at a time.

Safety pin type with no plate
Safety pin type with plate soldered on

Joe,

Here is a better picture of the threaded/screw type setup. I looked at some of my items and don't see any residue but that doesn't mean it's not hidden underneath. I think if done right probably no need but it doesn't hurt. I still have to see what my refence material state.

Mikee,
Thank you, much to see.
All the stick pins I have had over the years not one came with a pin lock. I see them in other collections.

I wonder if the threaded posts were heated and turned into a pre drilled celluloid type material if they would hold tight?

--dj--Joe U.S.M.C.

Joe,

They should but not absolutely sure. If we look at some of the Tinnies we collect, it looks like the safety pin and plate type setup with a hole on each side of the plate was heated then pushed into the material allowing that material to flow into and around those holes and plate locking it in place. Best!