UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum With a story - for the believers...

Dear collector friends, today I have a little story for you, believe it or not.
Got an ALCOSO Deutsche Jaegerschaft mini in a private buy. It did come out directly of a late hunter´s household and the story which did come with it was, that it has been a gift of Goering to the hunters at the certain event - see the engraving "Saujagd Spessart 1938" (boar hunting in the region of the Spessart 1938).
The miniature did cost only the price I see correct for those minis, not these ridiculous prices asked by dealers. So I did buy the item no the story.
Nevertheless you might believe the story too .
Regards,

BUT to make a long story short, I naturally did some research! So I stumbled over an auction of a GFM Milch (also a well known hunter) related part estate in 2018. And found a slightly devastated (one part of the crossguard broken away, the upper scabbard fitting turned raround, perhaps the lug broken) ALCOSO DJ Mini with EXACTLY the same engraved inscription and a small hunting knife with the engraved signature of Goering. So for me it is now hard to believe that the exact engraving on a devastated Miniature would be faked which would make two faked inscriptions. Especially in the connex with the estate and the Goering engraving.
What do you think?
Regards,

wotan,

I like it. Amazing find.

Wotan,, no offence as I'm not familiar with these at all.. Being more than one sometimes sets off alarms when it comes to gifts.. Unless maybe there was a bunch of guys and they all got the same one..

1938 you'd figure Goring would be giving something more elaborate! Even the engraving doesn't on the fancy side... Is the Goring signature an engraving or embossment?

As I mentioned I don't know these pieces but like to see gift items etc. So give me a good wack in the head if I'm way off base , its ok....,G.

@ Mikee, thank you for looking and your opinion!

@ Gaspare, in the late 30´s a lieutenant earned about 240RM, a worker 120(!) RM and an employee 230 RM. A comparable average hunting dagger (eg. EICKHORN Mod 36) did cost 16,5 RM. When we assume, I unfortunately don´t have an ALCOSO Mini list, that the certain ALCOSO deluxe Mini did cost ½ , therefore 8,25 RM, plus separate engraving, so around 10RM complete, you really think this was a cheap keepsake???
Yes, the second specimen which surfaced by research shows at least to me that there were more of them, assumable given to all attendees or professional hunters of this certain hunting event.
The Goering signature on the additional small hunting knife (a dedication of 1937 is on the other side I did no show) is an engraving.

Regards,

Wotan,,at that price I guess it isn't Kitch! So it was awarded to like a group thing.. [We used to have a 'Mini' section forum on the site. Those guys knew their minis etc.]

Knowing you a little,, I wouldn't doubt you find more information on it Having the item is great.. But finding and having the info on it is also the fun part...

Good looking items. I appreciate the opportunity to see them and the effort you put into research.

--dj--Joe

Very interesting items, you show here wotan.

H. W. Pauseback, a distributor of Alcoso, place an ad in DER DEUTSCHE JAGER, 10 March 1939 for "Briefoffner ca. 22 cm, wie Abbild Angebote unverbindlich Ratenzahlung".

NOTE: 22 cm= 8.66141732 inches.

C. Wetzel-20609

In my opinion these mini's are the best of there type out there, I have owned at least 10 of these over the years but never anything with a presentation, personally I like the story and it makes sense to me.

Gary

Thank you all for your contribution and opinions! The add is really interesting!!! Thank you C. Wetzel-20609 for this one. Deferred payment for a letter opener! So this item for sure was not cheap.

Baz69 told us the facts, they are not too rare, they do come by from time to time. And they are (like all socalled 1/2 Minis of ALCOSO) extremely well made.
Although they come by, the prices at dealers are extremely high, I have seen them even for 2000 USD... a price I personally never would pay for one engraved or not.

As Gaspare has written, we had a "Mini" section in our forum which is now combined with the sword forum. But I thought this certain "Mini" would fit better here in the hunting section.

Regards,

H. W. Pauseback, a distributor of Alcoso, place an ad in DER DEUTSCHE JAGER, 6 Jan. 1939 for "Hirschfanger, Briefoffner ca. 22 cm, w. Abbildung Angebote unverbl. Ratenzahlg.".

This ad is a little different than the March 1939 ad. Of 37 issues of DER DEUTSCHE JAGER from 1939 I have, only 2 issues have the ad.

Note: "aller art nach vorschrift paradestucke ehrenpreise", English translation I found: All kinds according to the rules Parade Pieces Honorary Awards (Honorary prize).

C. Wetzel-20609

Hallo C. Wetzel-20609, also this second ad is very interesting. A little addition to your translation: The ad starts with "Hirschfaenger -this word in Current script- aller Art...." (hunting daggers of all kinds...) in the middle there is mentioned "Solinger Wertarbeit" (Quality work of Solingen; also in Current script) and again " Briefoeffner " (letter opener; in Current script). Also the payment in rates is offered once more. Of special interest for me is the combiation of this certain hunting dagger mini and the word "Ehrenpreise" (honor prices)!
C. Wetzel-20609, thank you again for posting your interesting research!
Regards,

Glad to contribute to your research, wotan.

I do believe that the German word "Ehrenpreise", translates to "Honor prizes". Note that the English word "prices" means the cost of items.

You also used this spelling (shooting price) on the "Eickhorn 1456" thread, it should be shooting prize. Note:

"wotan
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 33
at home
Hello, the inscribtion is very hard (if not impossible) to be read only due to these pics from the auction but it says (first words in last line) that it is a "Wanderschießpreis" (...als Wanderschießpreis gestiftet von der... ehem. 57(?)er am 7.3.31). Which means a shooting price which could be gained from different persons at different occasions, always held by the last (date) winner until the next shooting occasion. Especially the mentioned units are for me impossble to read, but the date 7.3.31 is obviously correct.
Very nice and interesting hunting dagger, congratulations!
Regards,"

C. Wetzel-20609

The story seems not that strange to me.
Hunting parties always have been pretty large groups and to give them a high quality rememberance gift like this Alcoso letteropener is plausible.
The price would be more in the 5-6 RM range imo compared to the other Alcoso letteropeners, which was serious money, looking at a group of 20-30 hunters.
A very nice find Wotan!

Best
Ger

I'm by no means an expert here on the German language but I think that Wotan is correct in his translation of Ehrenpreise as honor price, I tend to use the term honor award myself but that's just for my own convienience. I believe the term Ehrenpreise is used because a lot of shooting awards consisted of monetary awards which were often used in the shooting chains we see sometimes today.

Gary

Thank you all for your highly constructive thoughts and contributions!

@Baz69, your point of view is interesting and makes sense, especially when looking at your wonderful and valuable shooting chains (thank you for showing these gems!, these are not oftn to be seen) but....

@C. Wetzel-20609, you are right, the correct word is prize (not price)! As English is not my first language and these two words do sound equal I misused "price" which is not correct in this context. Thank you for correction, I hope in the future I will take more care (but please apologize if I do the same mistake inadvertendly again...).

@Gerrit1963 thank you so much for showing these parts of the period letter opener catalog with prices ( - I hope I used the correct word here), it gives us a clue for the true value.

This is, what the forum is about, thoughts and serious contributions and hard facts, thank you all, it is a true pleasure to discuss an item with you!

Regards,

A search on the popular auction site found a 1938 museum guide for "Der Spessart". Page 11 shows plenty of wild boar available for Der Deutsche Jager.

Note: the round inserted photo of the wild boars is shown on a postcard.

C. Wetzel-20609

Well i guess "Ehrenpreis" could also be translated as honorary award, it depends a bit in which context it has been given.


Great to see these old postcards with lots of boars

Ger

In the Spessart region of Germany, wild boar hunting typically occurs during the fall and winter months. The main hunting season for wild boar generally runs from October to January12.

This period aligns with the breeding season and helps manage the wild boar population effectively.

C. Wetzel-20609

Is this my "Pig in a Poke" or "Bargain in a Box".

RARE Wild Boar Hunting Trophy or Memorabilia Item “Saujagd im Spessart” 1937. Item description from the seller: This is an incredible piece of art and memorabilia associated with WILD BOAR HUNTING. I am uncertain if it was a type of trophy or a memorabilia item to do with a wild boar hunt. Item measures approximately 6” from the base to the top of ears and approximately 5 1/2” wide. It weighs 1 lb and 7.1 ounces. Dated December 1937 and inscribed; “Saujagd im Spessart”. Possibly a center piece for a table setting that may have featured the “catch” as the main course. It appears to be perhaps a candle holder. It is cast from what I believe to possibly be aluminum (however it does seem rather heavy). Spessart is in Bavaria, Germany and was famous for wild boar hunting at the time of the production of this item. THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL AND HISTORICAL PIECE FROM THAT ERA.

PS above post (Oct. to Jan. 12), the 12 is an error, Oct. to Jan. is correct hunting season in Spessart.

C. Wetzel-20609 who notes: this item arrived 9/11/2024 at my house and the hole size in the ears is just over 19 MM, a 20 MM candle would probably fit. Item is of high-quality.

i like your wild boar. It's truly a one of a kind piece. Thanks for sharing it.

Nice catch. Never seen one with candles. Normally I see the ones made for a desk with ink well.

Saujagd im Spessart 1937 und 1938

From:
cwetzel20609@XXXX
To:
[email protected]


Mon, Sep 9 at 1:35 PM

Hallo museum volks der Spessart,

any information on der Saujagd im Spessart with gifts of "Hirschfanger, Briefoffner 22 CM mit "Saujagd Spessart 1938" or 6" x 5 1/2"Aluminum Wildboar kopf mit "Saujagd im Spessart Dez. 1937".

NOTE: Der Deutsche Jager 1939 ad for Briefoffner. (I sent photos of the Briefoffner, the 1939 Ad and the wild boar head).

These maybe gifts from hunt with H. Goring.

Best regards,
Calvin James Wetzel Jr.
Middletown, DE, U.S.A.

Here is the reply:

Schleicher Christa

From:
[email protected]
To:
'Calvin Wetzel'

Thu, Sep 12 at 4:14 AM

Dear Mr. Wetzel,

unfortunately, we do not have any information about these objects or any prestigious hunt in the Spessart forest in 1937 / 1938. Neither has anyone of us ever come across such an occurrence.

Best regards,
Christa Schleicher M.A.
Research assistant

Spessartmuseum
Landratsamt Main-Spessart
Schloßplatz 1
97816 Lohr a.Main

Tel:

+49 9353 793 - 23 04

Fax:

+49 9353 793 - 7913

E-Mail:

[email protected]

DE-Mail:

[email protected]


Besuchen Sie uns unter www.spessartmuseum.de, www.main-spessart.de


Informationen zum Datenschutz finden Sie unter

http://www.main-spessart.de/hinweise-datenschutz

After receiving the email from the Spessart Museum I replied that it is possible that the Hirschfanger, Briefoffner marked Saujagd Spessart 1938, may just be a souvenir of a person that also had one knife from H. Goring.

The aluminum Wild Boar head, Saujagd im Spessart Dez. 1937 may also be a souvenir of Der Deutsche Jager. "Research is subject to change". Maybe other items will turn up.

I did find a nice postcard for $10.00 as a "go with" for my Saujagd im Spessart Dez. 1937 souvenir.

C. Wetzel-20609

Hello C. Wetzel-20609, thank you for showing this interesting boar-head which is for sure a nice addition to any hunting collection of this time. Due to it´s engraving it also fits very well into this thread. And thank you too for your research, even when it did not bring something to light. Perhaps at any time there will be found Goering´s calendar or diary and we will get to know about the certain days.
The postcard gives us a nice impression.
Regards,