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#362439 07/02/2024 03:13 PM
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Jonesy Online Content OP
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I have never actually examined one of these but from all I have absorbed over the years it looks good. Have any changed hands lately? I have not been brave enough to ask for the price. The hangers have to be a rare find. Any thoughts?

Last edited by Jonesy; 07/02/2024 03:20 PM. Reason: update
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I haven't kept up on the prices of FHH but would think $75,000 to $110,000 hangers $15,000 to $20,000 ???? I think Tom Johnson sold one awhile ago just over $100,000 sans hangers cheers and best, Ryan

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Originally Posted by Jonesy
I have never actually examined one of these but from all I have absorbed over the years it looks good. Have any changed hands lately? I have not been brave enough to ask for the price. The hangers have to be a rare find. Any thoughts?

Any Pics???

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Did find it. From these detailed photographs it indeed looks like an original specimen. I do not like the wood and the color of the grip. Original grips have a more elegant reddishbrown color or are of reddishbrown bakelite. BUT there might have been done improper attemps of restauration which let the grip look how it looks now.
The hangers have a reversed upper clip, presumably done during (most likely period) shortening of the hangers.
As said the dagger with all it´s minute details and features looks indeed like a real one, for final judgement an in hand inspection (due to some more special features) would be necessary.
Some pics (courtesy Empires Past) included.
Regards,

Empires-Past-202420205a.jpg (138.29 KB, 186 downloads)
Empires-Past-202420222.jpg (163.41 KB, 186 downloads)
Empires-Past-202420232.jpg (125.68 KB, 187 downloads)
Empires-Past-202420261.jpg (184.47 KB, 185 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Here is how an untouched woodengrip of an FHH dagger looks like.
Regards,

04.jpg (127.79 KB, 181 downloads)
05.JPG (105.65 KB, 183 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Thanks, Wotan.

We don't see many of those.

Dave

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Dave, it´s my pleasure!

I forgot to write that I think you cannot value the hangers separately. Most of the few FHH daggers I could see over the years did come without hangers, only some were accompanied by their hangers. I have seen only ONE hanger (which did not meet the common color schema of doubtless original hangers) alone which was later added to the well known McCarthy FHH dagger.

Generally, although few have been produced (the highest number, they are internal marked, is some digits below 60) there have been years when two or three originals(!) at the same time had been offered for sale. But when the russians had the possibility and started to attend shows they all quickly disappeared and, as far as I could watch, did not come back...
Therefore FHH daggers are now even more rare (and expensive) in the western hemisphere. At the times when there were some offeres the price of a set was 30.000 to 50.000USD.
Due to my researches there might be 10-15 original FHH daggers (only "duty" daggers - which it IS, not counted any "honor model") still in existance. In this number there ae also three included which were in private collections and never have been offered on the market.

Regards,

FHH.JPG (126.68 KB, 170 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Wotan, thank you for showing me the beautiful dagger. Could you tell me what internal number your sample has?


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Originally Posted by den70
Wotan, thank you for showing me the beautiful dagger. Could you tell me what internal number your sample has?

Hallo den70 I am glad you like my FHH dagger. Please understand that I don´t give away such datas. Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Wotan, no problem. I just wanted to add this number to the database. But I understand and respect your opinion. Each owner decides for himself what information he is willing to share. In any case, an excellent dagger with a wonderful hanger.
Best regards Den.


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Wotan, many thanks for your valuable input and sharing pictures of your wonderful dagger, i can only dream of owning such a piece.


Regards Sean
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wotan,

WOAH! Never get tired of seeing it! You are the man!

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Originally Posted by wotan
Dave, it´s my pleasure!

I forgot to write that I think you cannot value the hangers separately. Most of the few FHH daggers I could see over the years did come without hangers, only some were accompanied by their hangers. I have seen only ONE hanger (which did not meet the common color schema of doubtless original hangers) alone which was later added to the well known McCarthy FHH dagger.

Generally, although few have been produced (the highest number, they are internal marked, is some digits below 60) there have been years when two or three originals(!) at the same time had been offered for sale. But when the russians had the possibility and started to attend shows they all quickly disappeared and, as far as I could watch, did not come back...
Therefore FHH daggers are now even more rare (and expensive) in the western hemisphere. At the times when there were some offeres the price of a set was 30.000 to 50.000USD.
Due to my researches there might be 10-15 original FHH daggers (only "duty" daggers - which it IS, not counted any "honor model") still in existance. In this number there ae also three included which were in private collections and never have been offered on the market.

Regards,


Hello Wotan,

Yes I remember those times, when surprisingly, several FHH daggers popped up for sale at the same time, it must have been in the years 2005 to 2010.

A couple FHH daggers also made it to western Europe at the time, but it is possible that they no longer reside in the same collections now...

Very smart of you to keep yours all these years, it is a magnificent piece!

Best regards,

Herman


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Originally Posted by den70
Wotan, no problem. I just wanted to add this number to the database. But I understand and respect your opinion. Each owner decides for himself what information he is willing to share. In any case, an excellent dagger with a wonderful hanger.
Best regards Den.

@ den70, thank you very much for your understanding. Funnily I have my own database of FHH daggers known by me and as said there are some in it which never did come to the collector´s market.

@Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), I think the times of several FHH daggers on the market has been earlier, perhaps 1990-2000 but did not research it. At least now they do come VERY seldom on the market, about 3-4 yars ago I saw an original at Weitze at a show but nothing more.
Even if it is rare, the prices I saw or have been told are imho ridiculous.

Thank you to all members which did show interest in this thread and the daggers.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Hello Wotan,

At the 2006 SOS show alone, 3 Feldherrnhalle daggers were offered for sale.

You might still find the post here, if searched for...

Those were the days...

Herman

Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/05/2024 07:39 PM.

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Yes Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), those were the days and even rare daggers were available and somehow affordable. Nowadays you have to think over if you can afford a navy dagger, not to speak from SSdaggers...
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Originally Posted by wotan
Did find it. From these detailed photographs it indeed looks like an original specimen. I do not like the wood and the color of the grip. Original grips have a more elegant reddishbrown color or are of reddishbrown bakelite. BUT there might have been done improper attemps of restauration which let the grip look how it looks now.
The hangers have a reversed upper clip, presumably done during (most likely period) shortening of the hangers.
As said the dagger with all it´s minute details and features looks indeed like a real one, for final judgement an in hand inspection (due to some more special features) would be necessary.
Some pics (courtesy Empires Past) included.
Regards,

Do you really think this dagger is period made????

Question: What does the forum think about the fittings that are hollow??? Are they original?? What does the forum think about fittings that DO NOT have sand cores???

DEN70 ????

Last edited by DAMAST; 07/06/2024 07:21 PM.

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Damast, Do you mean hollow guards? This is very unusual, but it is more a question of technology and materials. What confuses me much more is the difference in the processing of small parts and the different designs. But since these daggers are practically not available for study and comparison with each other, one has to be content with the rare luck of seeing this in person and hope for good photographs. Based on my observations, almost all daggers have minor differences from each other. And although the batch of daggers produced was small, no more than 100 copies, it still seems to me that it should have been mass production. It’s interesting what is written about this dagger in the company’s Masterbuch.

H19263-L65377559.jpg (27.61 KB, 83 downloads)

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OK.
It seems that the posters may not have any idea how original period daggers like these were made. And how period ones look.
There are many that were made postwar and there are a few different generations (upgrades) to the postwar made models.
The 1st fake I personally handled was about 40 + years ago now.
You have to be very careful with these as what were known postwar models
Years ago now seem to be anointed as original.

Den70.
And or woton. How are original hilt pieces made??
If you are judging daggers you should know..

Last edited by DAMAST; 07/07/2024 02:09 PM.

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Post-war replicas, or replicas assembled using original and new parts, are an unfortunately common occurrence in our hobby. But everything has its own nuances. the guards and grip of the LW1, SA and Heer daggers have both striking differences and some common points. Damast, please clarify what exactly you are talking about? Do you mean metal guards or the handle itself is wood or bakelite. Sorry, my English is bad.


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Den70
What does the Musterbuch say about this dagger??


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Unfortunately, I don't have this book. I missed her. I thought that you or someone from the community had it. It would be interesting to know what exactly is stated about this model. As far as I know, the book listed all the models and a small description. I think thanks to this we could learn about the material of the handles and perhaps other features.

Here are examples of pages that were published by the auction. It would be a shame if this information was lost.

H19263-L65377572.jpg (28.3 KB, 115 downloads)
H19263-L65377565.jpg (21.45 KB, 115 downloads)
H19263-L65377576.jpg (24.17 KB, 115 downloads)
H19263-L65377562.jpg (25.82 KB, 116 downloads)

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Originally Posted by DAMAST
OK.
It seems that the posters may not have any idea how original period daggers like these were made. And how period ones look.
There are many that were made postwar and there are a few different generations (upgrades) to the postwar made models.
The 1st fake I personally handled was about 40 + years ago now.
You have to be very careful with these as what were known postwar models
Years ago now seem to be anointed as original.

Den70.
And or woton. How are original hilt pieces made??
If you are judging daggers you should know..


Be sure that I do know how they are made and have quite an idea about a FHH being original/period or not but I for myself don´t participate in such an agressive and pedantic kind of "discussion". Take what I have written or leave me alone! How serious your statements are we all can see as you cannot even read/write correct (see my nickname).

I am appalled by this low attacking behaving instead of leading serious discussing so I will not answer anymore any of your posts.

It is very unpleasing when an interesting field of collecting and an interesting discussion is forced in such a direction due to a single "contributor" (who had not contributed anything to this thema until now beside questioning).


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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@ den70, the EICKHORN "Musterbuch" is NOT one book, it is a series of big, voliminous folios offered for sale in 2004 for 15.000USD. In 2006 the community was told that these are not for sale any more. I do not know what has happened to them until now, as some folios where shown in other forums I assume and fear the folios have been parted.... It would be an unbelievable source if only the owner(s) could read and understand(!) the german language...
Regards,

EICKHORN-Musterbuch8.jpg (51.76 KB, 104 downloads)
EICKHORN-Musterbuch5.jpg (51.51 KB, 104 downloads)
RIMG1889.JPG (41.42 KB, 104 downloads)
RIMG1905.JPG (37.87 KB, 104 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Wotan, these are incredible books. What you showed and what you are talking about is very interesting. It is a pity that they dropped out of scientific circulation. And our hobby should have become a science long ago. Knowledge that is not transmitted is dead knowledge.

The photo that I showed from the auction of Andreas Thies. There was only one book.


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Originally Posted by wotan
@ den70, the EICKHORN "Musterbuch" is NOT one book, it is a series of big, voliminous folios offered for sale in 2004 for 15.000USD. In 2006 the community was told that these are not for sale any more. I do not know what has happened to them until now, as some folios where shown in other forums I assume and fear the folios have been parted.... It would be an unbelievable source if only the owner(s) could read and understand(!) the german language...
Regards,

How do you know the owner does not read or understand German language??
You are incorrect in about all of your post here. Price is incorrect, they were never together since James Atwood sold parts to a minimum of 4 different dealers.
Most of the pictures you post are from a very dishonest person named Mike Morris of TX.
After he said he sold all what HE had to a very educated collector it ended up he shorted this collector and few years later tried to sell them again to another collector. His plot was exposed . One book came up for auction in Johnson Theis and others turned up at a show in the U.S.
There is a total of 5 main factory musterbuchs. 2 imperial 2 Weimar and 1 third reich

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Originally Posted by wotan
Originally Posted by DAMAST
OK.
It seems that the posters may not have any idea how original period daggers like these were made. And how period ones look.
There are many that were made postwar and there are a few different generations (upgrades) to the postwar made models.
The 1st fake I personally handled was about 40 + years ago now.
You have to be very careful with these as what were known postwar models
Years ago now seem to be anointed as original.

Den70.
And or woton. How are original hilt pieces made??
If you are judging daggers you should know..


Be sure that I do know how they are made and have quite an idea about a FHH being original/period or not but I for myself don´t participate in such an agressive and pedantic kind of "discussion". Take what I have written or leave me alone! How serious your statements are we all can see as you cannot even read/write correct (see my nickname).

I am appalled by this low attacking behaving instead of leading serious discussing so I will not answer anymore any of your posts.

It is very unpleasing when an interesting field of collecting and an interesting discussion is forced in such a direction due to a single "contributor" (who had not contributed anything to this thema until now beside questioning).

Yes I did spell your forum name wrong..

Just posting a very educated opinion and trying to understand if the posters know what they have or are looking at on the internet.


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It' be nice if someone who owns one now would chime in in this thread.

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pass

Last edited by DAMAST; 07/09/2024 11:03 PM.

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I have hit a nerve, as basically how dare I question or post anything the may put a negative light on something or question the collecting knowledge of someone I do not personally know..
I guess my questions were not {serious discussing} as it was posted ???
When posters do not want to share assembly numbers ( with DEN70 another serious scholar) or how the piece was made (me) is that not a red flag, is that a problem, or what does it mean ??

General post here to all posters. When it gets to the nitty gritty many forum posters do NOT share the little nuances of there item under the guise of (the fakers will know) or now my little secret is out and exposed or is it that some posters feel I'm beneath them?? Yes I also may seem to fall in this category too.
Again , I made a mistake on spelling a forum name Woton not (WOTAN) also known as the supreme god in Norse mythology . I see the connection now..
Maybe I should change my forum name to (FENRIR) small joke..
Many times there is a agenda to a thread like (Hey look at all the information I can find on the old internet newspapers ) (Hey look at how much money I spend on this hobby) but don't you dare ask a question the does not fit my reason for posting on a thread.. (Hey I know this is a fake. Do you know it is a fake?? and if so what is wrong in your eyes..)
Believe me (FACT IS STRANGER THAN FICTION) when it comes to collecting this stuff. THE SHOW MUST GO ON


OK steeping down from the soap box now..


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